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How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

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Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#11
I grew up a Jehovah's Witness (now attend a Presbyterian Church), and every piece of data in this article that touches them is bullshit.

The idea that gold-rimmed glasses are banned is just bizarre. You may see a different pair of Witnesses come by at different times because that was who was out that day, not because there is any tactic. There are no "immediate superiors." You are not disfellowshipped for "questioning an order," the idea that you even get "orders" is foolish. I suppose that idleness is a sin in some vague way, but it's not highlighted, and is no more so than for other Christians (ie., the Protestant work ethic). You can't lie or cheat, but you can drink. Maybe he's thinking Baptists? Also, you are not allowed to "lie for the cause." Witnesses don't refuse medical treatments in general, but do refuse blood transfusions.

Getting every single point wrong takes some special talent. So I assume everything else in the article about similar (or more cultish groups) is also wrong, though I am not an expert.

On the other hand, someone should definitely write an article about why the Apostle Paul was a great startup founder.

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#12
post #4
post #3

A great book about this is “The Culting of Brands” - by Douglas Atkin. http://sivers.org/book/CultingOfBrands

On a related note, I have read this book several times: http://books.google.com/books/about/Great_Boss_Dead_Boss.htm... The book, written in a Socratic style, is about tribes and tribal behavior in businesses.

Sounds like an amazing premise!

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The document was very aware of that, and continually said that this was a short-term strategy of last resort (with the exception being Apple).

Harley Davidson seems like a better example. Apple fans don't literally form gangs.

HD is a great example, as they only barely have to try to make functional motorcycles and their loyal fans will still keep buying them.

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#14
Very interesting. Four thoughts.

1. I don't like the term "cult" and the baggage associated with it. "Cult" seems to mean "religion with fewer than 10 million adherents". The more politically correct (but also more useful term) is NRM: New Religious Movement. They don't all end up here: http://walkthrough.starmen.net/earthbound/image/maps/happyha... . Forming communities is one of the major reasons why people subscribe to religions of all sizes (anxiety about death isn't it, contrary to modern claims; although few are sure exactly what ancient people believed, belief in gods seems to pre-date belief in a desirable afterlife by millennia) and the power law dynamic of community formation applies. Small doesn't mean "bad".

2. Corporations themselves are like cults in accord with this depiction, between the largely unnecessary administrative hierarchies, the drudge work, the unquestionable assertions from authority, and the us-versus-them mentality. Many gods are fictional psychopaths invented by ambitious people for material gain, and many corporations are... well, the same. Quite literally, corporations are treated as persons despite their psychopathic lack of balance and humanity, much like that of an ancient god.

3. VC-istan is a cult for avowed non-cultists or, to continue the company-as-cult metaphor, an atheist religion. Instead of executives, it's VCs at the top. Instead of PMs, the middling ranks are full of EIRs and "founders" who aren't taking real risks because the VCs have already decided who's in the in-crowd (if they don't like an idea but you're in their world, they "mentor" you till you converge on something they'll fund). Instead of "middle managers", there are "tech leads". Startup equity (disbursed, to rank and file, at insulting low levels) is designed to make worker bees feel like owners (and put in long hours) and bullshit perks are used to create a "halfway house" college feel for people forced into prolonged adolescence by high housing prices and social sacrifice. Instead of managers meeting behind closed doors to decide your year end "performance" bonus based on political factors, investors and large-company purchasers meet behind closed doors to discuss the acqui-hire that will determine your financial future... but it's the same thing.

4. Man, I think I'd be good at starting a cult. Maybe I should Kickstart that shit.

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#15
post #11

I grew up a Jehovah's Witness (now attend a Presbyterian Church), and every piece of data in this article that touches them is bullshit. The idea that gold-rimmed glasses are banned is just bizarre. You may see a different pair of Witnesses come by at different times because that was who was out that day, not because there is any tactic. There are no "immediate superiors." You are not disfellowshipped for "questionin…

With respect, I don't think the article gets every point wrong, but there may be some merit in what you have written.

I did a bit of reading. First, if you search the web, you can find articles about wire-rimmed glasses being banned for some period of time in some Jehovah's Witness congregations. I didn't find anything about gold-rimmed glasses specifically:

http://yucatan2012.com/Yucatan2012/MysticChristianity/E46336...

There is also some information on "Theocratic War Strategy," for example, in this Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_practices

From the article cited above, there is this quote attributed to the Watchtower Society:

"It is proper to cover over our arrangements for the work that God commands us to do. ...."

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#16
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harley Davidson seems like a better example. Apple fans don't literally form gangs.

HD is a great example, as they only barely have to try to make functional motorcycles and their loyal fans will still keep buying them.

There were a couple of year that buying a functional motorcycle from HD was difficult. It was more buy the cycle and fix it (or get someone to fix it for you).

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#17
The article implies that Linux had a planned marketing strategy (like a cult) .. I dont agree with this, I am pretty sure that the growth was quite disorganized, it just happened to be a better product. Which is a great parallel with organized religions, where "better products" in their times raised to be the mainstream.

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#18
post #15
post #11

I grew up a Jehovah's Witness (now attend a Presbyterian Church), and every piece of data in this article that touches them is bullshit. The idea that gold-rimmed glasses are banned is just bizarre. You may see a different pair of Witnesses come by at different times because that was who was out that day, not because there is any tactic. There are no "immediate superiors." You are not disfellowshipped for "questionin…

With respect, I don't think the article gets every point wrong, but there may be some merit in what you have written. I did a bit of reading. First, if you search the web, you can find articles about wire-rimmed glasses being banned for some period of time in some Jehovah's Witness congregations. I didn't find anything about gold-rimmed glasses specifically: http://yucatan2012.com/Yucatan2012/MysticChristianity/E4633…

I'm not sure I would link a source that is about "Christian and Mayan spirituality and our approach to health and fitness" that gets all its information from a site called towerwatch.com with the motto "Helping Christians Reach Jehovah's Witnesses with the Gospel of Our Savior Jesus Christ".

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#19

Very interesting. Four thoughts. 1. I don't like the term "cult" and the baggage associated with it. "Cult" seems to mean "religion with fewer than 10 million adherents". The more politically correct (but also more useful term) is NRM: New Religious Movement. They don't all end up here: http://walkthrough.starmen.net/earthbound/image/maps/happyha... . Forming communities is one of the major reasons why people subscri…

absolutely on the mark.

Re: How Cults Seduce and What Marketing Can Learn From Them [pdf]

#20
post #11

I grew up a Jehovah's Witness (now attend a Presbyterian Church), and every piece of data in this article that touches them is bullshit. The idea that gold-rimmed glasses are banned is just bizarre. You may see a different pair of Witnesses come by at different times because that was who was out that day, not because there is any tactic. There are no "immediate superiors." You are not disfellowshipped for "questionin…

As an ex-Jehovah's Witness, I agree this article gets a lot of things wrong. But they also are a crazy cult. I suggest the book "Crisis of Conscience" from an ex-governing body member if you're interested in JW's seedy history[1]. They started as a numerology-obsessed doomsday cult and evolved from there - the last time JWs sold off their possessions in anticipation of the end of the world was 1974, but it wasn't the first time. Today things aren't quite as bad, but they're still bad:

1) I wasn't allowed to have non-Jehovah's Witness friends or participate in after-school activities

2) Higher education was discouraged (I understood that it had been prohibited in earlier years, but they liberalized with the times). The idea is that you should spend your life serving the lord and not seeking material gain.

3) Reading non-Jehovah's Witness books on religious topics is prohibited. Some of the Church Services ("meetings") consist of reading verbatim word-for-word material handed down from the central organization ("the society"). Sermons ("talks") are written by cobbling together recent material put out by the society.

4) They practice shunning of ex-members (JWs will not talk to an ex-JW. I have no friends from childhood that will speak to me)

5) They do require a huge time commitment - door-to-door ("field service") at least once a week and three meetings per week.

6) They believe all other religions are products of the devil, sent to deceive mankind. Theirs is the only correct one.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/CRISIS-OF-CONSCIENCE-Raymond-Edition/d...

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