One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective • Hacker News Board

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#21

Post by doctorpangloss » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

WebStorm is my editor of choice, and it has most of the same strengths.

It's amazing though how complicated an IDE can be to develop. I'm not surprised JetBrains really specializes. TeamCity, while good, does not approach the sophisticated of something like PyCharm.

Conversely, the joke at WWDC was that Xcode 5 brings Apple's native tools into the year 2011.

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#22

Post by hhariri » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:10 PM UTC

mheathr wrote: post #10

coolsunglasses wrote: post #3

For those wondering, us Emacs creatures use Rope + ropemacs + rope-mode to achieve the same thing. Vim has access to the same tooling more or less.

I am a huge fan of VIM's design (and by extension EVIL http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil in Emacs, which is what I use most of the time), and I agree that all to most of this is achievable in Emacs. I really like Jetbrains products though, and when I am on Windows those are my goto tools as I don't have the UNIX user space to leverage alongside Emacs or VIM. They provide a great environment for those languages that…

ideaVim is Open Source and contributions are welcome. https://github.com/JetBrains/ideavim

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#23

Post by abrookins » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 7:57 PM UTC

buster wrote: post #4

I can only agree, PyCharm ist really great work by JetBrains, i love it. What i think he really missed in features though: - VCS integration is really really good - Plugins for the Atlassian suite (never open Jira in a browser again!) - virtualenv support - remote debugging and execution and uploading support - vagrant support

VCS integration is pretty good. I still tend to use the command line for most stuff though, so I didn't include that feature in my review. Still, there are nice things like having a graphical indicator of changed lines in a file since the last commit -- showing in the left margin of the file -- that I like, and it's probably worth a section.

I tried remote debugging and Vagrant tools and haven't used them very often since, so I didn't include them in the review.

I don't use Atlassian software except BitBucket repos, which the VCS plugin (and my command-line Git-fu) seems to handle fine.

However, I do use PyCharm's virtualenv support all the time, and it's pretty nice. Good point there and I should probably add something about it in the project management section.

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#24

Post by abrookins » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 7:58 PM UTC

buster wrote: post #18

ra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. And as someone who runs a linux and mac machine the "personal license" is awesomely down to earth.

Especially when you bought it on black friday or christmas or whenever they had 75% off :P I am considering buying IntelliJ next time they have such an offer..

I regret not buying Intellij Ultimate during their End of the World sale.

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#25

Post by abrookins » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 8:06 PM UTC

shadowmint wrote: post #19

One thing that doesn't turn up in that review: default key bindings. See: http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/docs/PyCharm_ReferenceCard.... vs: http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/docs/PyCharm_ReferenceCard_... You'll notice a few major differences, like control-N on windows == apple-O on a mac. Just weirdly inconsistent and irritating when you're jumping back and forth between different machines. I'll totally +1 for the…

Yeah, I should probably have a "Multiple Platforms" section in there to discuss issues like that different key bindings. Since I've remapped almost everything, I don't notice it as much.

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#26

Post by IzzyMurad » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 8:06 PM UTC

The only major downside I found is its nonnative feel since it's written in Java. Otherwise, it's the best.

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#27

Post by trailfox » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 8:37 PM UTC

abrookins wrote: post #25

shadowmint wrote: post #19

One thing that doesn't turn up in that review: default key bindings. See: http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/docs/PyCharm_ReferenceCard.... vs: http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/docs/PyCharm_ReferenceCard_... You'll notice a few major differences, like control-N on windows == apple-O on a mac. Just weirdly inconsistent and irritating when you're jumping back and forth between different machines. I'll totally +1 for the…

Yeah, I should probably have a "Multiple Platforms" section in there to discuss issues like that different key bindings. Since I've remapped almost everything, I don't notice it as much.

IntelliJ and friends are great, but the default keymap is a train smash on most common Linux distros. Whoever thought ctrl+alt+right arrow was a good navigation shortcut?

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#28

Post by Myrmornis » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 10:06 PM UTC

I want to believe. I suspect that hacking at large codebases with emacs/vim isn't the way we're going to build complex codebases over the next few decades. But I downloaded the free trial and got out of there after about 5 minutes and went back to shell + emacs. I just can't see how I'd ever really be in control with this complex layer between me and the actual python/django processes executing on my laptop. Without meaning to be gratuitously insulting (but being insulting) I do think IDEs like this make sense for code monkeys in large organizations. But for someone whose job involves actually writing the infrastructure of their django project (as opposed to relying on another department), I'm still not seeing it.

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#29

Post by codex » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 10:09 PM UTC

Myrmornis wrote: post #28

I want to believe. I suspect that hacking at large codebases with emacs/vim isn't the way we're going to build complex codebases over the next few decades. But I downloaded the free trial and got out of there after about 5 minutes and went back to shell + emacs. I just can't see how I'd ever really be in control with this complex layer between me and the actual python/django processes executing on my laptop. Without…

Can you elaborate? How do you feel PyCharm removes control? Does it setup your environment in a way which prevents customization?

Re: One Year Later: Review of PyCharm 2.7 from a Vim User’s Perspective

#30

Post by JanezStupar » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 10:32 PM UTC

codex wrote: post #29

Myrmornis wrote: post #28

I want to believe. I suspect that hacking at large codebases with emacs/vim isn't the way we're going to build complex codebases over the next few decades. But I downloaded the free trial and got out of there after about 5 minutes and went back to shell + emacs. I just can't see how I'd ever really be in control with this complex layer between me and the actual python/django processes executing on my laptop. Without…

Can you elaborate? How do you feel PyCharm removes control? Does it setup your environment in a way which prevents customization?

It doesn't. It doesn't do anything to your project.

It does offer awesome VCS integration features. It does offer a powerful debugger. And it gives you an JavaScript IDE that doesn't suck. VIM just cant handle modern JS code.

PyCharm also gives you PEP8 and JSLint support. And its intelligent autocomplete is awesome and makes programming in dynamically typed languages a breeze.

OP just couldn't be bothered to give the product a chance. While he is smugly juggling dozens of shell instances I let the IDE do the work for me.

Jetbrains is making the best IDE around.