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Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

thehill.com

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Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#111
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another advantage is that celebrities, by definition, aren't in politics to acquire fame and fortune. This has the potential advantage that they might be less able to be bought off.

If that's true, then why do many already rich celebrities continue to participate in grossly commercialized lowest common denominator work? Being rich doesn't mean you don't want to be richer.

Maybe the like doing it?

Or maybe the solution is just to pick celebrities that hold themselves to high standards. So... not Nicolas Cage.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#112
post #102
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another advantage is that celebrities, by definition, aren't in politics to acquire fame and fortune. This has the potential advantage that they might be less able to be bought off.

Or they could be single issue candidates, a particular form of corruption IMNSHO, like Clint Eastwood as the Mayor of Carmel. His restaurant then finally got its liquor license or expansion permit or whatever his issue was, I forget the details.

http://clinteastwood.net/mayor

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#113
post #43

In a normal scandal story, the appropriate committee would grant immunity to Snowden, have him testify, then bring up Clapper, have him testify, and compare notes. Preferably publicly. Here they bring in one side of the story for a secret Powerpoint presentation, no doubt with a high degree of spin to it, and publicly call Snowden a traitor. Then they complain that nobody shows up. This isn't a bake sale or a dog and…

I honestly think it's time to take action more than just normal protests.. Which are useless.. We need to find a way to get more than just the minority to revolt. Think about how many straight up stupid things are happening.. We make jokes about politicians and theyre decisions (see daily show) but i dont think its funny anymore. We need to change. I'm thinking about making some sort of political website, I can't dec…

In my opinion the best way to raise awareness with the general public, not those who would seek out a website on their own, is to go where they are.

I would use the same technique Apple used to change minds when the iPhone was new. Come up with bite-sized ads, and play them like regular ads, many times, but instead of advertising for a product, they should educate.

The media is doing a terrible job at this. The same way Google tries to force ISPs to change with Google Fiber, we should try forcing the media to step up by putting them in a bad light, by focusing on the important problems they're ignoring.

Imagine 30 second ads that focus on non-partisan information, stats not emotions, factual information like current laws and how they're not followed, a focus on a more global picture, on something more long term, something that would make you think and be more aware.

There's a lot of misinformation out there. We know this from the numerous polls that show large number of people believing things that are factually and provably not true.

We need to correct that first.

EFF, ACLU, and other organizations like these are trying, but they're not reaching most people. We need to reach and educate the people who have been turned off by the current state of affairs.

We need Twitter-size ads that people would find interesting and that would wet their appetite to seek out more and get involved.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#114
post #18

Our government is broken. It is no longer by the people for the people. Politicians are skipping out of their responsibilities. Politicians spend much of their time in office fundraising for re-election. Politicians raise much of their election financing from corporate interests, not the people, and thus have a diminishing obligation to the people.[1] A vast minority of people elect our politicians because 50% of eli…

> Our government is broken. It is no longer by the people for the people. Are there good grounds for thinking it was ever much more "by the people for the people" than it is now?

Of course, then there are moments when it was much less "for the people" than it is now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#115

Our government is broken. It is no longer by the people for the people. Politicians are skipping out of their responsibilities. Politicians spend much of their time in office fundraising for re-election. Politicians raise much of their election financing from corporate interests, not the people, and thus have a diminishing obligation to the people.[1] A vast minority of people elect our politicians because 50% of eli…

Not to be too glib, here's another impressively depressing stat: 56% of Americans don't have a problem with the recent NSA tracking revelation and a significant plurality would be happy to see it expanded[1]. What do we do when our representative government truly is representative?

[1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/most-americans-suppor...

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#116
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another advantage is that celebrities, by definition, aren't in politics to acquire fame and fortune. This has the potential advantage that they might be less able to be bought off.

If that's true, then why do many already rich celebrities continue to participate in grossly commercialized lowest common denominator work? Being rich doesn't mean you don't want to be richer.

A rapper does a few hours work, it buys him a new car. Very rational cost-benefit, even if short-sighted. It'd seem exceptionally inefficient for that rapper to launch a political career for the purpose of increasing his fortune, particularly with the increased scrutiny and fewer post-term consulting gigs he'd have compared to your average politician.

I can see celebrities doing it for the fame though-- specifically to show that they're "more than" an actor, singer, athlete, or whatever.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this is that you end up trading corruption for incompetence and uncertainty. Suppose we pick elected officials at random. OK, in the first round we get a bunch of reasonable people and they do a bunch of reasonable stuff. In the second round, maybe the same thing, except that they have different ideas from their predecessors so they end up repealing all the programs and replacing them with still reas…

sooner or later, random chance produces a majority coalition consisting of people who are willing to horse trade for corrupt programs that specifically benefit their own friends and family Something that a "professional" would never do, and something that is much likelier to happen by randomly selecting 1000-2000 people, than if people are able to work towards it. It clearly would be nuts to take away the ability to…

Elected officials have at least some accountability to the voters. If they do anything sufficiently bad then they don't get reelected, and at any given time there are a majority of elected officials who don't intend to immediately retire and therefore care about being reelected. If you select Congress at random then there is absolutely no accountability whatsoever. They can come in and collude with a majority of the other randomly selected people to each put as much of the country's wealth into their own pockets and the pockets of their friends and family as they can and then retire rich to the south of France. The only thing preventing that would be their own consciences, which may work once or twice but is guaranteed not to work forever.

The existing system isn't one with no accountability, it's one with accountability to the people who can drive election outcomes. The problem is that in a functioning system that is only the citizens, but in the current system it's also the campaign donors. That is a problem, but you can't solve it by eliminating all accountability whatsoever.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#118
post #115

Our government is broken. It is no longer by the people for the people. Politicians are skipping out of their responsibilities. Politicians spend much of their time in office fundraising for re-election. Politicians raise much of their election financing from corporate interests, not the people, and thus have a diminishing obligation to the people.[1] A vast minority of people elect our politicians because 50% of eli…

Not to be too glib, here's another impressively depressing stat: 56% of Americans don't have a problem with the recent NSA tracking revelation and a significant plurality would be happy to see it expanded[1]. What do we do when our representative government truly is representative? [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/most-americans-suppor...

This seems like a form of "Tyranny of the Majority" [1]. Apparently there are several ways of dealing with such things including (ahem) a Bill of Rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#119
post #26

It seems that rather than attracting the best of the best to lead this country we managed to arrive at a process that reliably picks the most self serving crooks this country has to offer and allow them to run this country. With a few exceptions nobody in congress seems to actually care even a bit about the people, but only how to drive the personal agenda forward. It's the same in Europe. Apparently representatives…

Has no one ever noticed how poorly the leadership of our democracies are treated? It's understood in the commercial sector that you have to pay (both on benefits, quality of work/life balance, pay, etc.) to attract and retain the best and brightest talent. How can we all take that very important lesson and completely throw it away when considering the leadership of an entire nation? I'm not sure I'd take Pres. Obama…

In response to your edit: I don't think many (if any) politicians are in it for the money. It's either the genuine belief that they can improve things or just a straight-up hunger for influence and power.

In light of your edit, I have no idea what point you're trying to get across. Being President is so stressful ... so what? Anyone who could become President is likely well past the "living comfortably" stage so there's obviously something else that drives them. Same goes for any of the Fortune 500 CEOs you refer to (none of them need the money).

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should elect the house (or senate, one or the other) by randomly drawing a large number of people from the population. See how easy it is to corrupt 1000-2000 randomly selected folks who, for the most part, have an ingrained set of morals. It'd be like a jury for the government and they'd easily be able to roadblock the vast majority of bullshit that goes on. We could even let them decide who the president is. Alt…

The problem with this is that you end up trading corruption for incompetence and uncertainty. Suppose we pick elected officials at random. OK, in the first round we get a bunch of reasonable people and they do a bunch of reasonable stuff. In the second round, maybe the same thing, except that they have different ideas from their predecessors so they end up repealing all the programs and replacing them with still reas…

There is real historical experience with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition -- and AFAIK Athens wasn't worse-governed than the U.S. over its period of democracy. (It's true the scale is different.) Thinking we could just swap it in for elections seems silly, yes, but it could serve as part of a package of real reform.
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