Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home • Hacker News Board

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#61

Post by jivatmanx » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:12 PM UTC

mpyne wrote: post #14

misiti3780 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easy solution: term limits

Which itself leads to a permanent issue of elected public servants with no long-term experience on the very important function of leading the nation. That leaves the expertise in the hands of unelected bureaucrats, who could easily maneuver the constantly-inexperienced politicians in the direction they wish. Pick your poison...

Absolute term limits would probably also worsen the trend of retiring congressman becoming lobbyists.

But what if you only limited the number of consecutive terms? This is a solution more directly targeting the actual problem: the advantage of incumbency.

This also creates more positive feedback between their lives in the public and private sector, congressmen hoping to be reelected will need to do something positive when out of office, and when in office they will have more understanding of the lives of working people than those who have spent the last 50 years in congress.

It's important to note that limits on consecutive terms were used by the Greeks, Romans, and supported by many founding fathers (who admired the Romans especially).

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#62

Post by ajays » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:13 PM UTC

It's obvious. Those who know the details don't feel like they need to attend. They know they'll learn nothing new; why waste their time?

Which begs the question: why didn't they speak up earlier? They probably would have, if they cared. The ruling class in this country knows that they won't be affected by these shenanigans. HSBC launders 100s of Billions of dollars for drug traffickers (sometimes literally accepting bags full of cash, and staying open late to do so), and no one goes to jail.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#63

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:20 PM UTC

alan_cx wrote: post #54

woodhull wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually really easy to fix with publicly funded elections, or other campaign finance reform.

No, just cap the spending and maximum donation.

That doesn't get you around the Citizens United issue, where 3rd parties spend $$$ on election messaging which favor particular candidates but are not directly involved in the campaign.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#64

Post by ealloc » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:22 PM UTC

forgotAgain wrote: post #27

gjm11 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our government is broken. It is no longer by the people for the people. Are there good grounds for thinking it was ever much more "by the people for the people" than it is now?

Are there good grounds for thinking it was ever much more "by the people for the people" than it is now? Teddy Roosevelt's national parks.

Interestingly, Roosevelt wasn't elected in his first term and only became president because McKinley was assasinated.

Would he have been able to run on his own at that point? I suspect not - he would have been viewed as too progressive by the people in charge.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#65

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:23 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #10

ck2 wrote: post #8

Not an excuse at all but part of the problem of our system, why they run home so fast, is they are constantly fundraising for their next election. They spend a massive amount of time in office just fundraising. Not sure how this can ever be fixed.

easy solution: term limits

God I'm so sick of this lame proposal. What's your evidence that this will improve things? Because we already have term limits in California and our legislature is a byword for dysfunction.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#66

Post by greedo » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:33 PM UTC

daeken wrote: post #41

startupfounder wrote: post #12

Our government is broken. It is no longer by the people for the people. Politicians are skipping out of their responsibilities. Politicians spend much of their time in office fundraising for re-election. Politicians raise much of their election financing from corporate interests, not the people, and thus have a diminishing obligation to the people.[1] A vast minority of people elect our politicians because 50% of eli…

> Politicians spend much of their time in office fundraising for re-election. Politicians should be disallowed from consecutive terms. They can run only when they're not already in office, preventing them from spending all their time on reelection, and (hopefully) leading them to fight for what the people want.

With term limits, you'd end up with an even more powerful bureaucracy.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#67

Post by greedo » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:37 PM UTC

woodhull wrote: post #20

ck2 wrote: post #8

Not an excuse at all but part of the problem of our system, why they run home so fast, is they are constantly fundraising for their next election. They spend a massive amount of time in office just fundraising. Not sure how this can ever be fixed.

It's actually really easy to fix with publicly funded elections, or other campaign finance reform.

The 1st Amendment would need to be dramatically modified to make significant change in campaign financing.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#68

Post by greedo » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:38 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #10

ck2 wrote: post #8

Not an excuse at all but part of the problem of our system, why they run home so fast, is they are constantly fundraising for their next election. They spend a massive amount of time in office just fundraising. Not sure how this can ever be fixed.

easy solution: term limits

The only way I would support term limits for politicians is if there were a corresponding term limit provision for civil employees. No one should be spending a lifetime feeding off the public trough.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#69

Post by jivatmanx » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:39 PM UTC

deelowe wrote: post #25

misiti3780 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easy solution: term limits

better solution: comprehensive campaign financing reform (e.g. all donations must be done by an individual, strict limits on the amount of financing, limits on the amount of advertising and type that candidates are allowed to do, public disclosure of donors, amounts, and campaign spending etc...)

The fungibility of money and nature of speech makes this hard to do without limiting free speech in some way.

Re: Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home

#70

Post by mike_herrera » Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 6:40 PM UTC

spinchange wrote: post #21

The icing on the cake is that Senate staff are prohibited from reading any classified materials Snowden leaked that are published in the press. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/06/14/senate-st... (Legislators rely on their staff for input, research, background and assistance in making decisions)

Interesting.

So self-serving Congressional insider-trading on privileged information is kosher, but performing the People's business with information which is now public is not.