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Retina Mac External display problem

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Re: Retina Mac External display problem

#31

It's funny to see how many Hacker News writers use Mac, the most closed hardware+OS, most anti-hackish. How about renaming HN to stand for Hipster News?

A Mac is the only computer on which you can legally develop for all major operating systems, including mobile.

How is that closed?

Re: Retina Mac External display problem

#32
post #20

Just a guess: The patterns in the examples seem to be horizontal, meaning the raw (pre 'cable encoding', usually 8b/10b) bit pattern of the display output would be repetitive . It wouldn't be out of the question that a slightly improperly electrically balanced or terminated output could cause signal integrity issues, including ringing (voltage exceeds spec on rising / falling edges) which could trigger safeguard circ…

I don't have any electrical knowledge. care to elaborate? Is that a problem with the cable, terminals on the devices, the mini-displayport dongle or either? The problem also only seems to occur on Retina Macbook Pro's

I thought of a simpler, or at least more relatable, analogy:

Most people have been around a cell phone which was near an audio speaker and heard it make those awful snap and pop sounds.

It doesn't make sense initially that you would hear anything like that from a phone, after all they operate at very high frequency, 900 - 2400 Mhz, definitely not audible frequencies. But, the system works by breaking up radio time into chunks, several hundred chunks a second. The relative spacing of the chunks, a few hundred a second, creates noise that is easily picked up by the speaker and turned into audible sound.

In the same way with the laptop you've got this high frequency signal: HDMI / DVI but when there are particular patterns of bits being carried you can get lower frequency content, similar to the chunks being used by the cell phone. Just like the coil in the speaker gets excited by the radio chunks, you could have a problem where the output circuitry of the RMBp gets excited by these rare low frequency patterns leading to problems with the display.

Re: Retina Mac External display problem

#33
How long before it takes effect? I don't see anything on my Retina MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt Display.

  Model Name:	MacBook Pro
  Model Identifier:	MacBookPro10,1
  Processor Name:	Intel Core i7
  Processor Speed:	2.6 GHz
  Number of Processors:	1
  Total Number of Cores:	4
  L2 Cache (per Core):	256 KB
  L3 Cache:	6 MB
  Memory:	16 GB
  Boot ROM Version:	MBP101.00EE.B02
  SMC Version (system):	2.3f35

Thunderbolt Display:

  Vendor Name:	Apple Inc.
  Device Name:	Thunderbolt Display
  Vendor ID:	0x1
  Device ID:	0x8002
  Device Revision:	0x1
  UID:	0x0001000100508120
  Route String:	3
  Firmware Version:	22.2
  Port:
  Status:	Device connected
  Link Status:	0x2
  Port Micro Firmware Version:	0.0.21
  Cable Firmware Version:	0.1.18
  Cable Serial Number:	C4M2263005QDNWFAX
  Port:
  Status:	No device connected
  Link Status:	0x7
  Port Micro Firmware Version:	0.0.21

Re: Retina Mac External display problem

#36
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any electrical knowledge. care to elaborate? Is that a problem with the cable, terminals on the devices, the mini-displayport dongle or either? The problem also only seems to occur on Retina Macbook Pro's

If my guess is correct, it would be a problem in the design of the output transceiver circuit on the RMP's motherboard, assuming the cable and receiver in the display are built to spec. Could be an IC issue, could be the impedance control of the connector, could be the impedance control of the traces on the circuit board, could be poorly chosen passives, could be interference from nearby circuits, etc. I wish I could…

Great explanation - sounds like a very reasonable/educated guess!

Re: Retina Mac External display problem

#37
post #31

It's funny to see how many Hacker News writers use Mac, the most closed hardware+OS, most anti-hackish. How about renaming HN to stand for Hipster News?

A Mac is the only computer on which you can legally develop for all major operating systems, including mobile. How is that closed?

[deleted]

Re: Retina Mac External display problem

#38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any electrical knowledge. care to elaborate? Is that a problem with the cable, terminals on the devices, the mini-displayport dongle or either? The problem also only seems to occur on Retina Macbook Pro's

If my guess is correct, it would be a problem in the design of the output transceiver circuit on the RMP's motherboard, assuming the cable and receiver in the display are built to spec. Could be an IC issue, could be the impedance control of the connector, could be the impedance control of the traces on the circuit board, could be poorly chosen passives, could be interference from nearby circuits, etc. I wish I could…

> It's far too large a topic to treat in a HN comment and its whole system encompassing so 'what it could be' is a large set.

This is a good start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_line

Re: Retina Mac External display problem

#39
post #31

It's funny to see how many Hacker News writers use Mac, the most closed hardware+OS, most anti-hackish. How about renaming HN to stand for Hipster News?

A Mac is the only computer on which you can legally develop for all major operating systems, including mobile. How is that closed?

Apple puts artificial restrictions on what tools you can use to write iPhone apps, and Macs are that allowed tool, so OS X isn't closed?

That is literally the dumbest argument I've ever read on HN.

Re: Retina Mac External display problem

#40
can reproduce with all examples incl. stopwatching.us with mid 2012 rmbp and LG 23EN43 which is connected via thunderbolt to DVI adapter.

display shuts off immediately.

Was quite confused when opening stopwatching.us yesterday, thanks for pointing it our here :)

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