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German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

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Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#241
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, it wasn't an arrangement she'd been in for a long time. I doubt she'd hit the six month point, and had been hoping to secure a visa to stay in the country legitimately.

Ack.. that's just incredibly poor judgement. If you have to lie to the officials when entering the country, you really shouldn't expect that a closer look later on is going to get you a visa - as soon as they discover you lied about it you're done for.

It's pretty common to lie to border agents. Both US and Canadian agents themselves have advised me to do so in the past. Ticking the "Have you been on a farm?" check box triggers a compulsory search for seeds (both smuggled and inadvertently stuck to your shoes). It is time consuming, and they know it to be a fruitless waste of time.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight... you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. We don't know what their exact method is or who they may pass the data along to, but we know they do this with no warrant. Now you're questioning whether Homeland Security, an agency originally created to pool information from all intelligence agencies to screen for terrorists, has access to the sam…

> you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. OK maybe I missed something, but do you have a citation for this?

I didn't know this discussion would be added to Wikipedia.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never has there been any dispute that the NSA can freely read what non Americans are doing without any sort of legal authorization. One would assume that access is given to Customs & Dept of Homeland Security too. This makes no sense whatsoever. Even if PRISM allowed at-will searches across the FB accounts of would-be au-pairs, there is frankly no way the NSA would be sharing this with low level customs officials .…

So let me get this straight... you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. We don't know what their exact method is or who they may pass the data along to, but we know they do this with no warrant. Now you're questioning whether Homeland Security, an agency originally created to pool information from all intelligence agencies to screen for terrorists, has access to the sam…

> So let me get this straight... you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. We don't know what their exact method is or who they may pass the data along to, but we know they do this with no warrant.

No, I don't know this. Do you?

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#244

It's unclear to me who provided the print-out of Jana's private messages. Obviously it seems much more likely that Jana provided the messages, not Homeland Security. I hired a Canadian once under a TN NAFTA "visa" and he had to bring some correspondence from me to the border. We had to be very careful to word things correctly and not to use specific words that could prevent him from coming to the US. It seems that th…

> Obviously it seems much more likely that Jana provided the messages, not Homeland Security. No, according to the article the printouts were provided by the US immigration officials. In fact, the article draws the inference that the US authorities may have been reading her private Facebook messages for weeks. I'm a native speaker of German; there really isn't any ambiguity here.

> private Facebook messages

What makes you think this is a thing that exists, aside from the rest of this conversation?

She sent a bunch of data to Facebook, with instructions to give that data to someone else. Why does she or anyone have an expectation of privacy when you hand an unsealed (read: unencrypted) piece of paper to a courrier?

If something's important, you protect it by putting it in an envelope.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#245
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are over 11 million illegals in this country. The typical reaction is to give them extensive welfare, and in certain cases, job and tuition preferences over citizens.

Myth status: BUSTED Illegal immigrants pay more into social security than they take out. I don't even live in your country and I know this, come on - read a book.

That's only social security, there are many, many other programs. Illegal immigrants qualify for some of them, it depends on the state.

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeituni_Onyango

She ignored deportation orders and managed to receive subsidized housing and a disability pension. She's not unique.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight... you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. We don't know what their exact method is or who they may pass the data along to, but we know they do this with no warrant. Now you're questioning whether Homeland Security, an agency originally created to pool information from all intelligence agencies to screen for terrorists, has access to the sam…

> So let me get this straight... you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. We don't know what their exact method is or who they may pass the data along to, but we know they do this with no warrant. No, I don't know this. Do you?

Have you been living under a rock? Look up PRISM. It's been in the news a little.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%2...

"They [NSA] could get most of it, but they couldn't get it all. So in order to get all the data, they had to go to the service providers to fill in the blanks. That's what the PRISM program is for—to fill in the blanks. It also gives the FBI basis for introducing evidence into court."

"PRISM was first publicly revealed on June 6, 2013 [...] The documents identified several technology companies as participants in the PRISM program, including (date of joining PRISM in parentheses) Microsoft (2007), Yahoo! (2008), Google (2009), Facebook (2009), Paltalk (2009), YouTube (2010), AOL (2011), Skype (2011), and Apple (2012)."

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So let me get this straight... you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. We don't know what their exact method is or who they may pass the data along to, but we know they do this with no warrant. No, I don't know this. Do you?

Have you been living under a rock? Look up PRISM. It's been in the news a little. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%2... "They [NSA] could get most of it, but they couldn't get it all. So in order to get all the data, they had to go to the service providers to fill in the blanks. That's what the PRISM program is for—to fill in the blanks. It also gives the FBI basis for introducing evidence i…

>> you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data.

This statement is not supported by anything in the wikipedia article you cited. You're spinning conjecture.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#248
post #38

It's unclear to me who provided the print-out of Jana's private messages. Obviously it seems much more likely that Jana provided the messages, not Homeland Security. I hired a Canadian once under a TN NAFTA "visa" and he had to bring some correspondence from me to the border. We had to be very careful to word things correctly and not to use specific words that could prevent him from coming to the US. It seems that th…

A friend of a friend (I know, I know) was stopped on the border between Canada and the US, and had her possessions searched. Inside they found her diary, which detailed her life and job in New York- which she shouldn't have had, because she was repeatedly entering the country on a tourist visa. She was rejected at the border. This may well be the same- even if the girl did not intend to show those messages to the bor…

How did she work in the US without a work visa? Every company that I have worked for (large and small) do the I-9 verification process at the start of employment. I can't see any company being so desperate for employees that they would skip that and hire someone without work authorization.

Of course, if you were working for yourself (freelance), there are no employment verification checks.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been living under a rock? Look up PRISM. It's been in the news a little. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%2... "They [NSA] could get most of it, but they couldn't get it all. So in order to get all the data, they had to go to the service providers to fill in the blanks. That's what the PRISM program is for—to fill in the blanks. It also gives the FBI basis for introducing evidence i…

>> you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. This statement is not supported by anything in the wikipedia article you cited. You're spinning conjecture.

Oh jesus christ. Fine, i'll do the reading for you. I'll just skip to sections with the word "Facebook" to make it easier.

Facebook provides data:

"Facebook: "We do not provide any government organization with direct access to Facebook servers. When Facebook is asked for data or information about specific individuals, we carefully scrutinize any such request for compliance with all applicable laws, and provide information only to the extent required by law."[23]"

Facebook has met with a US General on how to make data collection and reporting more efficient:

"The other companies held discussions with national security personnel on how to make available data more efficiently and securely.[29] In some cases, these companies made modifications to their systems in support of the intelligence collection effort.[29] The dialogues have continued in recent months, as General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has met with executives including those at Facebook"

Facebook custom built a system for delivering data to the government:

"the companies were effectively asked to construct a locked mailbox and provide the key to the government, people briefed on the negotiations said.[29] Facebook, for instance, built such a system for requesting and sharing the information.[29]"

The Director of National Intelligence says they have been using Facebook to collect information on foreigners for six years. I THINK THIS IS KIND OF A SMOKING GUN, BUT I COULD BE WRONG.

" Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, on June 7 released a statement confirming that for nearly six years the government of the United States had been using large internet services companies such as Google and Facebook to collect information on foreigners outside the United States as a defense against national security threats."

In the future, please just read the page instead of trolling me to do the research for you.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#250
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, don't get me started.. I still cringe about multiple 'turn on the computer' scenes in Tel Aviv, where 'turn it on' obviously (..) wasn't satisfied by pressing the button, nor by logging in: I had to 'open a file, just any file' (the clueless guys would be impatient by now, being annoyed by my failure to understand this useless requirement). Usually I chose a default windows wallpaper -> Done. Braindead, waste of…

It's fairly easy to rig a laptop display to a micro controller just clever enough to run a login screen simulator, gut out the actual computer electronics and battery, and replace them with contraband or a bomb. Tel Aviv security, which I've been through several times, want to be sure the computer is of the kind it's supposed to be. Login screen simulators are old tech. Friends of mine used to run them on the termina…

Yeah. Right. I've been through that stuff a number of times myself. More than a dozen times.

You do realize that the process I'm talking about happens after they (always.. always.. sigh) x-rayed your belongings like everywhere else and (this is special, I get that treatment every time) polished all my electronic equipment with their 'sniffer' pads for traces of whatever explosives I might've built into my laptop?

That totally ignores that both times that I had to do this weird 'proof it works' dance by .. clicking myself, doing what came to my mind (and what I considered nonsense). If your world allows for a cramped micro controller that kind of simulates an OS booting, plus the login screen: Hey, let me raise you a Raspberry Pi in a laptop case, that __actually_ runs a full operating system.

It's bullshit, there's no way to make it better.

Disclaimer: I like the country, love Tel Aviv and certainly don't claim to be an expert on terrorism. But I can recognize IT related crap when I see it.

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