Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU • Hacker News Board

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#41

Post by sp332 » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:35 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #39

sp332 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst one I know of was when they wouldn't let Nelson Mandela into the country because some computer had flagged him as having ties to terrorist groups. Condoleezza Rice personally went to the airport to wave him through security. She was so mad, she might have single-handedly taken the teeth out of that system. Edit: more info, and some evidence that I was right :) http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-…

I find the "some computer" comment a bit odd, because Nelson Mandela most certainly did have ties to terrorist groups. He co-founded one. This is not a swipe against Mandela in any way. It's just an example that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, and how rigid systems can end up giving you politically inconvenient results. If you make a blanket rule that people with ties to terrorism cannot enter t…

Oh that's true, but I think the problem was still an automated one. No person actually looked at Nelson Mandela's file and decided that he should be denied access to the USA.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#42

Post by chockablock » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:35 PM UTC

lanaius wrote: post #18

lmgftp wrote: post #2

Their decision was probably based in some way (assuming it's based on available information, which is admittedly risky) in his marriage to a foreign national while expressing interest in moving to the states, and the embassy's reluctance to chance him violating his visa permissions and in some way moving here with his wife in a permanent resident-alien w/o a visa type manner. Not claiming to know anything special, bu…

I have been told by other foreign graduate students that getting married in another country (possibly even married at all) violates that student visa agreements. One girl is French and marrying an American, she was told that if she goes to France to have a wedding ceremony that she would not be allowed back in to America. This sounds exactly like what happened to this student. It's shameful and bizarre, but it appear…

Student visas (F1 and J1) are valid only so long as you do not have 'immigrant intent' (as compared to, say, an H-1B, which doesn't have this requirement). Marrying an American (even in another country) can suggest to the DHS that you may actually intend to immigrate to the US after all. At that point, though, you have other options (can apply to be sponsored for a green card by your spouse).

I've never heard of student visa problems caused by getting married to a non-American, which seems to be what happened in the case discussed in the OP.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#43

Post by untog » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

As an immigrant in the US, watching HN lately has been enlightening. Absolutely none of this is new- and it's also almost entirely unrelated to PRISM. Despite the fact that tech companies have been struggling with insane visa rules for years, it's only now that we start posting about individual injustices, now that we can file it under the banner of "government bad"?

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#44

Post by sentenza » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:38 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #15

weego wrote: post #10

Are we going to trawl up and link every single case of someone being denied re-entry to the US? It's just getting rather tedious. Though as the constant karma farming off similarly tedious and usually poorly researched and written blog posts of the last week continues unabated perhaps I am in a minority of readers who gets their news from decent sources and likes to come to HN for interesting technical articles.

I think HN is seriously at risk of having jumped the shark for good. This NSA thing blew the lid off - the front page is completely full of articles about politics, with more each day about all kinds of different things. I suppose things may settle down again - they have after other big events, but... I worry, I worry. (And for the record, for those who conflate not wanting to see every article about this with not ca…

You might be right, but I have the feeling that something other is at play here too. The PRISM scandal has raised awareness and interest about these things and we are now seeing a suddenly released glut of stuff like this working its way through the system. These things are happening all the time, but I get the feeling that up until now only US-foreigners were aware of the extent of it.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#45

Post by mikeash » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:38 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #41

mikeash wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the "some computer" comment a bit odd, because Nelson Mandela most certainly did have ties to terrorist groups. He co-founded one. This is not a swipe against Mandela in any way. It's just an example that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, and how rigid systems can end up giving you politically inconvenient results. If you make a blanket rule that people with ties to terrorism cannot enter t…

Oh that's true, but I think the problem was still an automated one. No person actually looked at Nelson Mandela's file and decided that he should be denied access to the USA.

I imagine a person probably did look at his file and decide (at least implicitly, as part of labeling him as affiliated with a terror group) that he shouldn't be admitted to the USA. Of course, this happened decades beforehand.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#46

Post by VLM » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:39 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

I wonder if this is one of those vague "security" problems. It seems like if people get denied for normal stuff (overstaying, violating their visas, etc) they're told and can at least fight it a little. But when you get a black mark against you it seems like you get stuck in an administrative blackhole where nobody is authorised to tell you WHY or they themselves don't know. It was the same way with the no-fly list f…

"But when you get a black mark against you"

There are better, more accurate literary and historical analogies than "black marks". Things like yellow stars, scarlet letters, that kind of thing. aka reason number 235135 not to be proud to be an American.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#47

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:40 PM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #27

EliRivers wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely we want them to stop doing bad things? :p

Yes, but this will stop them from doing EASY TO CATCH bad things. It's like anti-bacterial soap. Think about how badass that 0.1% that ISN'T killed is.

[deleted]

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#48

Post by slaxman » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:40 PM UTC

Wow! This really saddens me. But I experienced something similar. When I got married a couple of years ago (in India) I really wanted my one cousins (who I was really close to) to come to my wedding. Unfortunately, his lawyers advised him no to come stating that given the current state of affairs, his reentry to US might be jeopardized. This is in spite of the fact that he had lived in US for over a decade and paid huge taxes during that time.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#49

Post by muyuu » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:41 PM UTC

jdmitch wrote: post #5

...not sure what sort of "moral debt" (second bullet point) Omar had to the country - is there some reason he should have had to contribute anything to the US economy? Its not like the military where you commit to extra years of service for the financial inducements attached to further study. He's probably already contributed more than most Americans just in his research during the years of his PhD. As an American do…

Yep, but why would you want to live in the US now? Just look at it.

Stay with us, mate.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#50

Post by OldSchool » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 2:42 PM UTC

He sounds like a brilliant student. However does anyone find it the least bit noteworthy that the US government is paying for foreign citizens' tuition and stipends while many of its own citizens are forced to go deeply in debt?