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Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

nytimes.com

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Re: Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

#41

Post by l33tbro »

mtgx wrote: post #13
Shivetya wrote: post #11

What annoys me is that just watching the various government agencies, IRS, NSA, FBI, and others, is that there is a pattern of not telling the public the truth, they lie to Congress as well. How is it that our own government agencies can lie to Congress with near impunity? It is like disrespect has become second nature to government. They do not respect us nor do they respect other agencies within the same. Too big t…

I think you should be even more outraged about the fact that Congress doesn't really seem to care that they lied to them. Because if that continues, then we have a pretty big problem here. Where are all the impeachments and swift punishments from Congress? By not punishing them, it just makes it ok for the next guy to do it.

First the GFC architects getting away with tearing down the financial system, and now the NSA carelessly violating Congress without repercussion. It disgusts me that America has come to this. Why do we, the people, allow such anarchy in the halls of power, yet relinquish all freedom in the streets and online? I'm no long-hair, but this is our government. Why do we keep installing these criminals to throne?

Re: Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

#43

Post by jjoonathan »

olalonde wrote: post #25

"In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve." - Alexis de Tocqueville In a sense, Americans deserve what they got. They chose to re-elect the same party (Democratic/Republican party, is there a difference really?) over and over again when there is an alternative in the libertarian party which by the way, would most certainly not authorize or encourage what the NSA has been up to. Regardless of your po…

>In a sense, Americans deserve what they got. They chose to re-elect...

So if I kidnap you and give you the choice of dying from a pistol and dying from a shotgun, I'm off the hook for murder?

> there is an alternative in the libertarian party

Spoiler effect. Also, given that the party currently in control of the executive branch campaigned on the promise of stopping these surveillance programs and then went on to extend them, I question your certainty that the libertarians would actually stick to their values once in office.

Re: Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

#44

Post by dragonwriter »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #39
sigzero wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Those who do not vote have the right to complain." Yup, I just won't listen to them.

So you won't listen to, say, people convicted of minor drug crimes, or who have otherwise been disenfranchised for any of a wide variety of reasons, some good and some not-so-good?

I think most people who make the "people who don't vote..." argument pretty clearly mean "people who choose not to vote", not "people who are denied the opportunity to vote".

Re: Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

#45

Post by [deleted] »

hanifvirani wrote: post #20

When this issue came out, I was really hoping that the people will rise and big changes will finally happen. But now I realize that it was just wishful thinking. For any real big positive changes to occur, there first needs to be a change at the root level, and by that I mean the way people think. The government doing this is a big problem, sure. But the majority of people don't even care, and that I think is a much…

[deleted]

Re: Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

#46

Post by olalonde »

jjoonathan wrote: post #43
olalonde wrote: post #25

"In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve." - Alexis de Tocqueville In a sense, Americans deserve what they got. They chose to re-elect the same party (Democratic/Republican party, is there a difference really?) over and over again when there is an alternative in the libertarian party which by the way, would most certainly not authorize or encourage what the NSA has been up to. Regardless of your po…

>In a sense, Americans deserve what they got. They chose to re-elect... So if I kidnap you and give you the choice of dying from a pistol and dying from a shotgun, I'm off the hook for murder? > there is an alternative in the libertarian party Spoiler effect. Also, given that the party currently in control of the executive branch campaigned on the promise of stopping these surveillance programs and then went on to ex…

As I replied to someone else, I meant Americans as a group, not the individuals. Regarding the Libertarian party, I am not certain they would stick to their values but I'm certain it would be better than status quo.

Re: Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

#47

Post by misiti3780 »

hanifvirani wrote: post #20

When this issue came out, I was really hoping that the people will rise and big changes will finally happen. But now I realize that it was just wishful thinking. For any real big positive changes to occur, there first needs to be a change at the root level, and by that I mean the way people think. The government doing this is a big problem, sure. But the majority of people don't even care, and that I think is a much…

a majority of people know more about what is happening on the jersey shore than they know about prism - that is the real problem - its cool to be ignorant and apathetic these days

Re: Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

#48

Post by misiti3780 »

misiti3780 wrote: post #47
hanifvirani wrote: post #20

When this issue came out, I was really hoping that the people will rise and big changes will finally happen. But now I realize that it was just wishful thinking. For any real big positive changes to occur, there first needs to be a change at the root level, and by that I mean the way people think. The government doing this is a big problem, sure. But the majority of people don't even care, and that I think is a much…

a majority of people know more about what is happening on the jersey shore than they know about prism - that is the real problem - its cool to be ignorant and apathetic these days

maybe it's not "cool", but it certainly is not "uncool"

Re: Before Prosecuting, Investigate the Government

#49

Post by oftenwrong »

hanifvirani wrote: post #20

When this issue came out, I was really hoping that the people will rise and big changes will finally happen. But now I realize that it was just wishful thinking. For any real big positive changes to occur, there first needs to be a change at the root level, and by that I mean the way people think. The government doing this is a big problem, sure. But the majority of people don't even care, and that I think is a much…

Even worse, a lot of Americans seem to see Snowden as a traitor.
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