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Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

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Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#61

Post by DanBC »

zer0gravity wrote: post #46
tn13 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I wonder why cant we create too many false positives for them to make the whole data meaningless ? Instead of hiding all our private communication we can generate fake communication across the whole internet which might raise flags in NSA's system. (I would have given more concrete examples but I am scared that tomorrow some NSA freak might knock on my door.)

What you're proposing is like this: I want to say a sentence to someone, but in order for an unintended listener not to understand what I'm saying I will say 10 sentences. Five of which will be "I will kill you and everyone you know" and "I will bomb America". Isn't that just a meaningless waste of energy? -- The government spies on you because you make it easy for it to do it. Instead, keep your personal data person…

There are some extensions that generate a lot of extra traffic. They were developed around the time that Phorm[1] was being introduced in the UK.

I agree with you and TemPorAL (apologies for incorrect capitalisation!) that these are probably a waste of time for the user - they don't work.

NSA and GCHQ are very good at math - I'm constantly surprised that people don't appear to get this. Maybe it's because secret government agencies don't publish much?

Just for fun here's one extension: (http://trackmenot.org/) (https://cs.nyu.edu/trackmenot/)

People can probably come up with ways to improve it. But still, these are probably pointless measures.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#62

Post by zer0gravity »

DanBC wrote: post #58
zer0gravity wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concrete steps that I have made to gain control over my data: - hosting my DNS server ( bind ) along with my domain - Made my own RSS reader and blog with openid authentication (server/client) - Installed ftp server ( vsftpd ) - Installed my own mailserver (nice tutorial here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MailServer ) Planning to: - install my own xmpp server I want to create an integrated, user centered platfor…

Hosting your own email server is sub-optimal for several reasons. Email is still being sent as plain text. Encryption is possible even if you're using someone else's server. Your deliverability is reliant upon other people's good will. Those people have no idea who Joe Sixpack in Idaho is, and have no reason to extend goodwill. Your deliverability is also subject to wingnuts using a variety of good and not so good bl…

I just want to start by holding my own data. (While you my be right that big providers allow to wipe your mails, they can make copies). I just don't want for a third party to relay my data in the first place.

While your points are right there are solutions, and in the long run it's worth it

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#63

Post by zer0gravity »

amirmc wrote: post #53
zer0gravity wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concrete steps that I have made to gain control over my data: - hosting my DNS server ( bind ) along with my domain - Made my own RSS reader and blog with openid authentication (server/client) - Installed ftp server ( vsftpd ) - Installed my own mailserver (nice tutorial here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MailServer ) Planning to: - install my own xmpp server I want to create an integrated, user centered platfor…

I'm looking at doing something similar. Are you writing about any of this as you go? Would be interesting to learn about the hurdles.

Unfortunately no, I'm just pushing to make something usable and stable.

Then I plan to release it in the wild along with the documentation, as free open source of course

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#64

Post by DanBC »

zer0gravity wrote: post #62
DanBC wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hosting your own email server is sub-optimal for several reasons. Email is still being sent as plain text. Encryption is possible even if you're using someone else's server. Your deliverability is reliant upon other people's good will. Those people have no idea who Joe Sixpack in Idaho is, and have no reason to extend goodwill. Your deliverability is also subject to wingnuts using a variety of good and not so good bl…

I just want to start by holding my own data. (While you my be right that big providers allow to wipe your mails, they can make copies). I just don't want for a third party to relay my data in the first place. While your points are right there are solutions, and in the long run it's worth it

You make a good point, and I had forgotten about the legal requirements for some providers to make and keep copies.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#65

Post by Nursie »

kunai wrote: post #8

Just the fact that we have to start websites like these, and march Capitol Hill to make the government realize its mistake is depressing, infuriating, and is gently, gradually tapping at a hot, steaming teapot of rage within every rational individual's psyche. What is the root cause? How did this get so incredibly bad? Is it the fault of the public? Is it the public's fault we are in an Orwellian state of Soviet-era…

Wait, you think a little march and a couple of websites will change anything? Someone still has a some unwarranted faith in humanity!

What will happen is some politicians will make some noises from their face holes, they might promise a few reviews, or to look into a few things. These will be accompanied by rationalisations that seek to marginalise concerns and make it look like these measures are to protect the children and tall buildings.

In a few weeks most of the public will stop caring, partly because of the noise from politicians flapping their gums, partly because of a low attention span. If a review actually takes place, it will report that there was nothing wrong with what's been going on, it's all within the law. A few people will mutter about changing the laws, but most people won't care by this point and the political classes will have a new hot button talking point by then.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#66

Post by zer0gravity »

mseebach wrote: post #49
kunai wrote: post #8

Just the fact that we have to start websites like these, and march Capitol Hill to make the government realize its mistake is depressing, infuriating, and is gently, gradually tapping at a hot, steaming teapot of rage within every rational individual's psyche. What is the root cause? How did this get so incredibly bad? Is it the fault of the public? Is it the public's fault we are in an Orwellian state of Soviet-era…

The reason freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to petition and host of other freedoms are important is that, from time to time, you need to use them. Democracy isn't a guarantee that everything will be perfect, quite the opposite, but that we have a reasonable chance of rightening a wrong without erecting guillotines on the national mall. The challenge IMO isn't petitioning Congress, it's petitioning the…

> remains on the radar for the upcoming election

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Democracy is not about elections, it's about representing yourself.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#67

Post by mseebach »

zer0gravity wrote: post #66
mseebach wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to petition and host of other freedoms are important is that, from time to time, you need to use them. Democracy isn't a guarantee that everything will be perfect, quite the opposite, but that we have a reasonable chance of rightening a wrong without erecting guillotines on the national mall. The challenge IMO isn't petitioning Congress, it's petitioning the…

> remains on the radar for the upcoming election Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Democracy is not about elections, it's about representing yourself.

Democracies have emerged from scandal and abuses of power before, so it not actually insane to believe that it can happen again.

Believing that the outcome will be a perfect fairy-tale land of milk and honey, on the other hand, not so much. It's important to keep in mind that victory in this case probably looks a lot like better constitutional oversight of the FISA courts.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#68

Post by PavlovsCat »

Nursie wrote: post #65
kunai wrote: post #8

Just the fact that we have to start websites like these, and march Capitol Hill to make the government realize its mistake is depressing, infuriating, and is gently, gradually tapping at a hot, steaming teapot of rage within every rational individual's psyche. What is the root cause? How did this get so incredibly bad? Is it the fault of the public? Is it the public's fault we are in an Orwellian state of Soviet-era…

Wait, you think a little march and a couple of websites will change anything? Someone still has a some unwarranted faith in humanity! What will happen is some politicians will make some noises from their face holes, they might promise a few reviews, or to look into a few things. These will be accompanied by rationalisations that seek to marginalise concerns and make it look like these measures are to protect the chil…

Wait, you think a little march and a couple of websites will change anything? Someone still has a some unwarranted faith in humanity!

Organizing and demonstrations can make a big difference.. for those involved in them :P That is to say, it sometimes just plain feels good to see you're not alone with being fed up -- or even better, that you're not alone with the things you're for, either.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#70

Post by coldpie »

visarga wrote: post #40
jafaku wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What technical countermeasures do you suggest? Check out what this guy has to say about resistance: http://youtu.be/3ftfEXxFC4Q?t=28m53s

I have thought about it. We can't make use any more of Google, Microsoft, Yahoo Twitter and FaceBook. We need a new system, one built with anonymity and lacking a central point of failure. Let's say we invent a protocol and write some software clients for it. It should do anonymous search, browsing, messenging, social networking, video calls and video streaming. It would hide the origin of a request and make it uncer…

I've been thinking about this, too (I think something built on top of Freenet is the answer, btw). But the trouble I keep running in to is: no one is going to use it. Relatively few people want to hide what they put into the Internet. Everything on Facebook is effectively public, and look how much information gets placed there.

We can invent wonderful and secure ideas all day, and have been since the '40s. But what use are they if no one uses them?

We need to break this down like any traditional problem and remove irrationality. What, exactly, is the problem we want to solve? What prevents existing technology from solving that problem?

Edit: I should add, I'm somewhat interested in discussing this seriously, if you wish to take it off HN.

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