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Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

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Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#11

Post by fiatmoney »

jafaku wrote: post #7
fiatmoney wrote: post #6

Instead of a "campaign", how about some technical countermeasures? They're the only thing that actually has a chance of working. You simply can't rely on the political process as it exists when the response of the security establishment is to a) wait for an arbitrary crisis to dust off a naked power-grab, b) secretly "reinterpret" the law beyond recognition, and c) flatly ignore the law as they did with their "Terror…

What technical countermeasures do you suggest? Check out what this guy has to say about resistance: http://youtu.be/3ftfEXxFC4Q?t=28m53s

Frankly, I'm hoping that they can come up with some, and some other people can come up with ways to make such measures socially accepted and encouraged. The examples he gives are specifically the kinds of things that there are social solutions to - eg making it Not Socially Acceptable to wear mobile face recognition systems around in public.

If you're going to devolve into a DDR-style police state, there's very little technically that can prevent that from happening. What can happen is that you force an enormous investment of resources to maintain it, instead of giving the ability to a tiny cabal. If you're forcing the recruitment of a demographically significantly portion of the population (somewhere 2.5% to 7% in the case of the Stasi) in order to maintain the security apparatus, there's much more room for debate over whether to build it or dismantle it than if it just requires a few billion dollars and a fistful of NSLs.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#12

Post by barret907k »

kunai wrote: post #8

Just the fact that we have to start websites like these, and march Capitol Hill to make the government realize its mistake is depressing, infuriating, and is gently, gradually tapping at a hot, steaming teapot of rage within every rational individual's psyche. What is the root cause? How did this get so incredibly bad? Is it the fault of the public? Is it the public's fault we are in an Orwellian state of Soviet-era…

Make sure you're marching is very peaceful. Don't want the government to label you a 'terrorist'. You may never seen sunlight again.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#13

Post by kunai »

barret907k wrote: post #12
kunai wrote: post #8

Just the fact that we have to start websites like these, and march Capitol Hill to make the government realize its mistake is depressing, infuriating, and is gently, gradually tapping at a hot, steaming teapot of rage within every rational individual's psyche. What is the root cause? How did this get so incredibly bad? Is it the fault of the public? Is it the public's fault we are in an Orwellian state of Soviet-era…

Make sure you're marching is very peaceful. Don't want the government to label you a 'terrorist'. You may never seen sunlight again.

I'm young, foolish, and I honestly don't care if I'm labeled a terrorist.

Although, my ethnicity doesn't particularly help my cause...

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#15

Post by fiatmoney »

bradenb wrote: post #10

Here's where I get depressed about this whole thing: how will we know change has occurred? I mean, say in the best case scenario the government admits it was wrong and promises to stop the monitoring programs. How exactly are we supposed to know it has happened? I don't see why they couldn't simply start up a new secret program using the exact same resources and keep it from the public eye.

Which they have done repeatedly, as in the case of the "Total Information Awareness" program.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#16

Post by lepht »

kunai wrote: post #13
barret907k wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make sure you're marching is very peaceful. Don't want the government to label you a 'terrorist'. You may never seen sunlight again.

I'm young, foolish, and I honestly don't care if I'm labeled a terrorist. Although, my ethnicity doesn't particularly help my cause...

Interesting sentiment, and I can't help but think this is why the government seems to fear the youth the most/ships them off to wars in other countries.

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#17

Post by nano111 »

kunai wrote: post #8

Just the fact that we have to start websites like these, and march Capitol Hill to make the government realize its mistake is depressing, infuriating, and is gently, gradually tapping at a hot, steaming teapot of rage within every rational individual's psyche. What is the root cause? How did this get so incredibly bad? Is it the fault of the public? Is it the public's fault we are in an Orwellian state of Soviet-era…

Creating a mesh network using the unused analog TV frequencies probably would be nice and useful

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#19

Post by nano111 »

bradenb wrote: post #10

Here's where I get depressed about this whole thing: how will we know change has occurred? I mean, say in the best case scenario the government admits it was wrong and promises to stop the monitoring programs. How exactly are we supposed to know it has happened? I don't see why they couldn't simply start up a new secret program using the exact same resources and keep it from the public eye.

companies should never have to lie on the spying statistics (but maybe need to hide some specifics)

Re: Mozilla, EFF, Reddit And 83 Other Organizations Launch StopWatching.Us

#20

Post by milhous »

bradenb wrote: post #10

Here's where I get depressed about this whole thing: how will we know change has occurred? I mean, say in the best case scenario the government admits it was wrong and promises to stop the monitoring programs. How exactly are we supposed to know it has happened? I don't see why they couldn't simply start up a new secret program using the exact same resources and keep it from the public eye.

A good way to do it would be to radically downsize the federal government and return back to limited constitutional government. The less money they have, the less stuff they can do. Return power (and tax revenues) back to the states so that the people of that state can have a more powerful influence in state/local politics instead of everyone pleading, fighting, and begging at the national level in Washington.

And since radical downsizing won't happen voluntarily, as both political parties are corrupt and incompetent, the only way I can see this happening is for the government to continue borrowing and spending money into oblivion, which will ultimately trigger an economic default. At that point, there will be no money for new secret programs.

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