Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

You commit three felonies a day

kottke.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 172 posts

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#141

Post by JamisonM »

npongratz wrote: post #114
dylangs1030 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chattel slavery"...I'm sorry, but what are you on about? This comparison doesn't reflect the current state of affairs in the United States. Yeah, the NSA did some shitty things that circumnavigated loopholes in the Constitution. But you still don't realize how good you have it. Being in a Western country like the United States is spectacularly better than living conditions on many other entire continents, and someti…

dylangs1030 said: " We are not anything like chattel slavery. It weakens your argument to try to argue otherwise. " Where is your disagreement? I'll reiterate: > We definitely do not live in a system of chattel slavery...

I think you are being a bit disingenuous in this response, finish the quote:

> We definitely do not live in a system of chattel slavery, but that's only because chattel slavery is so much less efficient..

This statement makes it sound like you start from the position that we would live in a system of chattel slavery if not for its lack of efficiency then you are comparing what you deem the "current form of slavery" to chattel slavery. You are, to my reading of your whole comment, specifically saying that the slavery you allege we currently labor under is as bad or worse than chattel slavery.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#142

Post by npongratz »

aidenn0 wrote: post #129
paisawalla wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, when you guys speak in literal terms of "chattel slavery" and "masters" it becomes very hard to take any point you're making seriously. Get some perspective, or go full Godwin and compare everything to Hitler and the Holocaust.

Did npongratz ninja-edit or did you and the other reply not actually read the comment? The post you are replying to specifically says that it's not talking about "chattel slavery" when it refers to the current system as slavery.

No ninja-edits from me.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#143

Post by justin66 »

coldtea wrote: post #121
justin66 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But SOME aspects of the old days, e.g pertaining to LESS fucking SURVEILLANCE, were. That's enough to be angry about and want to reverse course on that particular front. > Did somebody argue here that slavery was good? No, people just argue that modern surveillance (and legal-code-overload) is bad. Which is true but a little myopic. Until the Warren court decided that wiretapping required a warrant, law enforcement…

> Which is true but a little myopic. Until the Warren court decided that wiretapping required a warrant, law enforcement could surveil your communications at any time for any reason. Only they couldn't do 1/100 of what they can now. Even wiretapping a single person required a few days work, people listening, unwieldy tape machines to record and replay it, etc. No AVR with stop words, not automatic routing, no DSP etc…

> Only they couldn't do 1/100 of what they can now.

Again, true but rather beside the point. I want the limits on intrusive government power to be constitutional, not technological.

> How is it better?

There's a lot that can be said about this, but short answer: a lot of the things they're doing are (thanks to the Warren court era's findings regarding civil liberties which I mentioned) actually unconstitutional under the law. There's a reason why they keep these programs so secret and it's not that they don't want "the terrorists" to know that we can listen to their phone conversations. It's because they know they are, to be generous, pushing the envelope of what is legal.

I see a lot of hopelessness regarding these topics right now but there shouldn't be. If people keep shining light on these secret programs, there will be reform.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#144

Post by rosser »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #92
npongratz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True only if chattel slavery were the only kind of slavery. The ruling masters treat those who work "at will for pay" like livestock when the masters demand taxes, threatening violence upon those who withhold the protection money. The livestock are being milked with every paycheck. We definitely do not live in a system of chattel slavery, but that's only because chattel slavery is so much less efficient (for the mast…

"Chattel slavery"...I'm sorry, but what are you on about? This comparison doesn't reflect the current state of affairs in the United States. Yeah, the NSA did some shitty things that circumnavigated loopholes in the Constitution. But you still don't realize how good you have it. Being in a Western country like the United States is spectacularly better than living conditions on many other entire continents, and someti…

Circumvented loopholes in the Constitution?

Only insofar as breaking and entering is "circumventing" a "loophole" in the lock on my door.

There is no slavery. There is virtually no indentured slavery, named or in practice.

I take it you're completely unfamiliar with human trafficking and the sex trade.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#145

Post by stygiansonic »

Perceval wrote: post #138
stygiansonic wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the quote, "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."

"And now bills were passed, not only for national objects but for individual cases, and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt." —Tacitus, Annals , Book III, 27.

Yes indeed - a more accurate translation, and with more relevant context.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#146

Post by simonh »

maratd wrote: post #140
njharman wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless basic human needs are free (health, housing, food & water), no one is working "at will".

Communist much?

I can't see how. Having visited several communist counties, and being married to someone that grew up in one, the previous comment doesn't resemble any of them in the slightest.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#147

Post by grecy »

tptacek wrote: post #62
bmelton wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably guilty of having violated the Lacey Act (16 USC §3370-3378) at some point in your life. It is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, possess, or purchase any fish, wildlife, or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any Federal, State, foreign, or Indian tribal law, treaty, or regulation. What's interesting is that, under the Lacey Act, if p…

Not being a strict liability crime, violations of the Lacey act would need to be committed knowingly.

I would have to think that anyone wearing clothes made from an exotic or endangered animal knows they are breaking the law from some other country...

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#148

Post by jlgreco »

rosser wrote: post #144
dylangs1030 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chattel slavery"...I'm sorry, but what are you on about? This comparison doesn't reflect the current state of affairs in the United States. Yeah, the NSA did some shitty things that circumnavigated loopholes in the Constitution. But you still don't realize how good you have it. Being in a Western country like the United States is spectacularly better than living conditions on many other entire continents, and someti…

Circumvented loopholes in the Constitution? Only insofar as breaking and entering is "circumventing" a "loophole" in the lock on my door. There is no slavery. There is virtually no indentured slavery, named or in practice. I take it you're completely unfamiliar with human trafficking and the sex trade.

> I take it you're completely unfamiliar with human trafficking and the sex trade.

Or the prison system, which the 13th specifically makes an exception for..

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#149

Post by notaddicted »

pmiller2 wrote: post #131
zero_intp wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent DOJ opinion (that a court gave warrant for) that an AP author was party to a crime while (/because of) trying to avoid surveillance.

I'm not familiar with this opinion. Do you have a source?

I think parent^ poster was referring to this:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/700577-051413-letter...

A reporter was being investigated for having access to classified information, and the toll records (what number called or was called, and for how long the call lasted) were subpoenaed.

[Via http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/14/4331108/attorney-general-d... ]

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#150

Post by 542458 »

mikeash wrote: post #136
542458 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a car isn't as valuable tool when it comes to protecting yourself from tyranny (in the NRA's opinion). The NRA's point is that the government should be incapable of immediately identifying which citizens would be capable of forcibly resisting it, for the protection of those citizens who can resist (so that they aren't singled out) and those who can't (so that the government doesn't just pick easy targets).

Hmm... does the NRA keep a registry of its members?

A voluntary registry, but point still taken.
Post reply on HN