Mac Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: Mac Pro

#541

Post by astrodust » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 4:29 PM UTC

seanp2k2 wrote: post #466

astrodust wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea here is any video card you might want you can just plug in to a Thunderbolt 2 port. Six of those, which can be chained, is way better than having four internal slots.

Not quite. Note that Thunderbolt 2 can do 2x20G/bits/ per second, vs PCI-E v3 at 32G/bytes/ per second (on a 16x slot). Refs: - http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/19/pci-express-makes-the-3-0... - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pci_express - http://www.zdnet.com/intel-unveils-thunderbolt-2-7000016595/ - http://www.tomshardware.com/news/lucid-gpu-graphics-thunderb... - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-graphi…

I did some more reading and it looks like Thunderbolt 2 is a lot like a single lane of PCI-e v4, slightly faster but similar.

Hopefully Thunderbolt performance will continue to improve, though, and it can leverage all of the improvements to PCI-e.

The fiber version of Thunderbolt/Light-Peak could probably fix a lot of these issues with copper signal limitations. At this point the electronics in the Thunderbolt cable are so expensive that switching to a more expensive cable with no electronics might be a net win.

Re: Mac Pro

#542

Post by astrodust » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 4:35 PM UTC

stormbrew wrote: post #294

astrodust wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea here is any video card you might want you can just plug in to a Thunderbolt 2 port. Six of those, which can be chained, is way better than having four internal slots.

So on top of the almost-certainly really expensive Mac Pro, you now also need to get the really expensive PCIe expansion enclosure on top of it? Or did I miss nvidia or ati making thunderbolt video cards? This is why the idea that this makes sense for professional users is silly. It's just asking them to spend a lot more money for something that's been possible with standard case designs for decades. The old Mac Pro…

The existing Mac Pro has four drive bays. That number seems to be too many, or way too few, never quite right. This design seems to surrender to the fact that one stupidly fast SSD is good enough to build a base, and the rest can be attached externally.

NVidia and AMD have been making external video cards for a while now using external PCIe, but they haven't sold very well and support for these sorts of connectors is limited. Thunderbolt 2 should eventually change that.

Apple's in a bit of a tough spot here. The Mac Pro can never be fast enough or big enough for some, and the bigger and faster they make it, the more it becomes overkill for those that just need something more serious than an iMac or Mac Mini.

Re: Mac Pro

#543

Post by sneak » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 4:58 PM UTC

jarek wrote: post #535

sneak wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacBookAir4,2 and MacBookPro10,1. I buy AppleCare and leave the screwdrivers to the Genius Bar. They have copies of them on all of the continents I travel between; I frequently do not. Furthermore, who wants to be in the laptop repair business? I push bits. For a few hundred bucks they'll fix anything that breaks and I can stop being the Maytag Man and get on with life.

I take it you do not visit Poland or Trinidad and Tobago often. Fair enough, to each for their own needs! But keep in mind the grandparent is not necessarily a high-flying high-paid bit-pusher like you, so your dismissal is still a little self-centered. (Should I mention that it took two standard-size Phillips heads to replace my screen, the kind of sizes frequently found in a basic swappable-head screwdriver?)

I live 30 miles from Poland. They finally opened the Apple store in Berlin, too.

Re: Mac Pro

#544

Post by jqueryin » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 5:04 PM UTC

forrestthewoods wrote: post #475

btown wrote: post #231

Copywriting and product-debate aside, that's some pretty impressive frontend presentation. From what I can tell from the minified JS, they're using Require.JS for code organization, their own jQuery-like utility toolkit they call Apple Core, fully pre-rendered text everywhere, and javascript that plays and pauses two copies of the HTML5 video, one backwards and one forwards, shuffling their opacities for seamless tra…

Ugh. I think it's beyond awful. Incredibly slow and in many environments (chrome-windows) effectively non-functional. I still haven't made it to the end because of how slow and unresponsive it is.

If your machine isn't already rendering that page flawlessly, I would argue that you weren't the website's target audience. IMO, the site caters those looking for a high end performance machine; those who likely already own and are using a MBP or even an Air and want that extra performance boost.

I personally went through slide by slide just to read the specs. The transitions aren't the fastest given they overrode scroll events in favor of framing and animation, but it was done so intentionally as a form of presentation.

Re: Mac Pro

#545

Post by alimoeeny » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 5:09 PM UTC

jqueryin wrote: post #544

forrestthewoods wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I think it's beyond awful. Incredibly slow and in many environments (chrome-windows) effectively non-functional. I still haven't made it to the end because of how slow and unresponsive it is.

If your machine isn't already rendering that page flawlessly, I would argue that you weren't the website's target audience. IMO, the site caters those looking for a high end performance machine; those who likely already own and are using a MBP or even an Air and want that extra performance boost. I personally went through slide by slide just to read the specs. The transitions aren't the fastest given they overrode sc…

What? I am a dev, I have very good MBP, 8GB ram, running latest chrome dev version, and it is sluggish, a bit less sluggish on Safari same machine,

Re: Mac Pro

#546

Post by Felix21 » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 5:11 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #472

btown wrote: post #231

Copywriting and product-debate aside, that's some pretty impressive frontend presentation. From what I can tell from the minified JS, they're using Require.JS for code organization, their own jQuery-like utility toolkit they call Apple Core, fully pre-rendered text everywhere, and javascript that plays and pauses two copies of the HTML5 video, one backwards and one forwards, shuffling their opacities for seamless tra…

I haven't seen any video or animation on either FF or Chrome (on Win machine). Any idea what browser does it work in?

It works pretty well on chrome(linux mint 14)

What do you see?

Re: Mac Pro

#547

Post by keithpeter » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 5:19 PM UTC

matthew-wegner wrote: post #365

rsync wrote: post #256

I love this new device. I suspect I will buy one. But it doesn't solve my "need a new mac pro" problem. Right now my 2009 octo mac pro, with six displays attached, plays three roles: - it is my high end desktop workstation, with three primary high resolution (2560x1600) displays. - it is my HTPC, with one of the six monitors strung into another room entirely. - it is my office NAS, with four internal 3TB disks So, th…

Maybe build a Hackintosh? I've been running one for 18 months (coming off a Mac Pro when it became clear upgrades would be a long time coming). It's pretty great. If you're careful with hardware selection you can apply Apple's own software updates with zero issues. See: http://www.tonymacx86.com/351-building-customac-buyer-s-guid...

How hard was it to fit the processor onto the motherboard? Thermal compound &c. That strikes me as the only really tricky bit.

(PS: that hardware looks as if it would work fine with Ubuntu)

Re: Mac Pro

#548

Post by jarek » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 5:20 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #543

jarek wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you do not visit Poland or Trinidad and Tobago often. Fair enough, to each for their own needs! But keep in mind the grandparent is not necessarily a high-flying high-paid bit-pusher like you, so your dismissal is still a little self-centered. (Should I mention that it took two standard-size Phillips heads to replace my screen, the kind of sizes frequently found in a basic swappable-head screwdriver?)

I live 30 miles from Poland. They finally opened the Apple store in Berlin, too.

Ah yes, Berlin, that's a reasonable option for laptop repair for residents and visitors to Poland.

Re: Mac Pro

#549

Post by milhous » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 5:36 PM UTC

adolph wrote: post #531

milhous wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, exactly my thoughts. Also, didn't Tim Cook say the mini was going to be manufactured in the US as well? And could it also be the case that the Mini will follow the Pro's form factor because it would save money in manufacturing an entirely separate low-margin unit? After seeing the Pro, I fantasized how fun it would be to have a desktop machine with several symmetric displays. My bet, the entry level Pro will be…

My bet is that Apple will be hard pressed to keep the current 2,500 base price. Three next generation Thunderbolt connectors, expensive Xeon processors, expensive ECC RAM, expensive PCIe flash disk. They basically took all the cheap, legacy and physically large stuff off the Mac Pro and folded up the remainder into a triangle that goes into a tube. Can you believe that the old Mac Pro case and fundamental design was…

Pretty incredible run. Both the PowerMac G5 and aluminum PowerBook G4 helped pave the way for the Intel transition. A good way to re-use R&D and save money!

Re: Mac Pro

#550

Post by kybernetikos » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

kevinpet wrote: post #383

rsync wrote: post #256

I love this new device. I suspect I will buy one. But it doesn't solve my "need a new mac pro" problem. Right now my 2009 octo mac pro, with six displays attached, plays three roles: - it is my high end desktop workstation, with three primary high resolution (2560x1600) displays. - it is my HTPC, with one of the six monitors strung into another room entirely. - it is my office NAS, with four internal 3TB disks So, th…

I think that the whole notion of "it's nice to know I could upgrade" is primarily a consequence of what's currently in the system. Consider the next upgrade. You buy this thing in 2013. For bulk storage, you hook up a usb 3.0 raid array and a cheap usb dvd drive. A couple years later, you decide you need more fast storage, so you add on a 512GB / 4 TB thunderbolt fusion drive box (note: this product doesn't exist tod…

I think the form factor might support some interesting upgrade options, like hifi separates.