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You commit three felonies a day

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Re: You commit three felonies a day

#81

Post by npongratz »

pekk wrote: post #77
JanezStupar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better and worse slave masters. But slave master is a slave master still.

If you are working at will for pay, you are not being enslaved. Get a grip.

True only if chattel slavery were the only kind of slavery.

The ruling masters treat those who work "at will for pay" like livestock when the masters demand taxes, threatening violence upon those who withhold the protection money. The livestock are being milked with every paycheck.

We definitely do not live in a system of chattel slavery, but that's only because chattel slavery is so much less efficient (for the masters) than farming those who are willing to repeat the mantra that we "are not being enslaved."

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#82

Post by jboggan »

thebooktocome wrote: post #57
xradionut wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But I suspect the NSA doesn't know how many guns you own. That alone is somehow seen as a violation of your rights" Have you purchased a firearm in the US from a licensed dealer recently? There's paper/digital record of most firearm purchase in most cases, with a few exceptions. There's a cursory background check ran too. (In the case of most US citizens the government doesn't care about small arms. Most are used fo…

You can purchase firearms for cash from many dealers (at gun shows) without either a background check or a paper trail.

Not true. If the purchase is from an actual dealer with a Federal Firearms License then a 4473 (ATF form) must be filled out and an accompanying background check will be made. If the purchase is between two non-dealers then there is no requirement in many states for a background check or paperwork, so long as both are residents of the same state the transaction occurs in.

However, all new guns are (since 1968) purchased from a licensed dealer, so there is always the beginning of a paper trail. How far that goes before it gets muddled in private sales is another matter.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#83

Post by jeremyjh »

xradionut wrote: post #40
ck2 wrote: post #5

And the felony history never goes away now. Just think, a child who gets their first smartphone today, will have their entire phone history recorded until death. Their geolocation saved. Their email saved. All their financial transactions. All their friends and family will be known. Every intercontact in society. Where they shop, eat, etc. Who they date. I mean why would the NSA ever delete it? They can just get taxp…

"But I suspect the NSA doesn't know how many guns you own. That alone is somehow seen as a violation of your rights" Have you purchased a firearm in the US from a licensed dealer recently? There's paper/digital record of most firearm purchase in most cases, with a few exceptions. There's a cursory background check ran too. (In the case of most US citizens the government doesn't care about small arms. Most are used fo…

The dealer maintains their own record but those are not handed over to the government and it is not possible to do lookups by a person's name, only by serial number. So police can trace ownership history of a specific weapon, by going from dealer to dealer - until it has entered the private market - but they cannot get a list of everyone that owns a weapon.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#84

Post by mikeash »

danso wrote: post #7
ck2 wrote: post #5

And the felony history never goes away now. Just think, a child who gets their first smartphone today, will have their entire phone history recorded until death. Their geolocation saved. Their email saved. All their financial transactions. All their friends and family will be known. Every intercontact in society. Where they shop, eat, etc. Who they date. I mean why would the NSA ever delete it? They can just get taxp…

I've become more bearish about the idea of electronic medical records. The ability for a bureaucracy to keep those safe seems far, far off in the future, no matter what technology advances come through. And guns: well, if you're pro-gun-control, this mindset (justified or not) should help you understand why the NRA is so passionately against gun registration of any kind. In terms of the NSA: I don't think they care m…

Still can't understand why gun registration is supposed to be so awful but car registration is apparently perfectly fine.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#85

Post by paisawalla »

npongratz wrote: post #81
pekk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are working at will for pay, you are not being enslaved. Get a grip.

True only if chattel slavery were the only kind of slavery. The ruling masters treat those who work "at will for pay" like livestock when the masters demand taxes, threatening violence upon those who withhold the protection money. The livestock are being milked with every paycheck. We definitely do not live in a system of chattel slavery, but that's only because chattel slavery is so much less efficient (for the mast…

You know, when you guys speak in literal terms of "chattel slavery" and "masters" it becomes very hard to take any point you're making seriously. Get some perspective, or go full Godwin and compare everything to Hitler and the Holocaust.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#86

Post by fywacro »

xradionut wrote: post #40
ck2 wrote: post #5

And the felony history never goes away now. Just think, a child who gets their first smartphone today, will have their entire phone history recorded until death. Their geolocation saved. Their email saved. All their financial transactions. All their friends and family will be known. Every intercontact in society. Where they shop, eat, etc. Who they date. I mean why would the NSA ever delete it? They can just get taxp…

"But I suspect the NSA doesn't know how many guns you own. That alone is somehow seen as a violation of your rights" Have you purchased a firearm in the US from a licensed dealer recently? There's paper/digital record of most firearm purchase in most cases, with a few exceptions. There's a cursory background check ran too. (In the case of most US citizens the government doesn't care about small arms. Most are used fo…

I'm not so sure that most US firearm purchases are recorded.

In many US states, direct private gun sales are perfectly legal. For instance, a Pennsylvania resident can directly sell (most) guns to another PA resident. They don't need to run background checks, keep records, or submit forms to the government. As long as the buyer doesn't know that the seller is a prohibited person (convicted/indicted felon, etc), it's kosher.

Because these sales aren't documented or reported, it's harder to count them. There are estimates, but I can't find anything that seems reliable. I did find an interesting article that discusses this issue at length, though:

* http://www.policymic.com/articles/24070/gun-control-policy-u...

Anecdotally, I know dozens of people who've collectively purchased many, many guns through private sales. Also, take a peek at Armslist.com, GunBroker.com, GunAuction.com, GunsAmerica.com, and similar sites.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#87

Post by stygiansonic »

Uchikoma wrote: post #9

From Atlas Shrugged: “Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. [...] There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”

Reminds me of the quote, "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#88

Post by fywacro »

jboggan wrote: post #82
thebooktocome wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can purchase firearms for cash from many dealers (at gun shows) without either a background check or a paper trail.

Not true. If the purchase is from an actual dealer with a Federal Firearms License then a 4473 (ATF form) must be filled out and an accompanying background check will be made. If the purchase is between two non-dealers then there is no requirement in many states for a background check or paperwork, so long as both are residents of the same state the transaction occurs in. However, all new guns are (since 1968) purcha…

I believe it should be noted that federal law requires an FFL for anybody engaged in a "primary business" of selling guns. There's no bright line, here. People who regularly sell guns (at gun shows, or otherwise) but don't hold FFLs are playing with fire, if the ATF decides to take an interest in them.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#89

Post by kyllo »

moron4hire wrote: post #68
kyllo wrote: post #61

I'm not so convinced Nacchio is an innocent victim. And I also find it rich that a former telecom CEO guilty of numerous financial crimes is being held up as an example of targeted political persecution using frivolous laws. Insider trading is not the type of crime you commit unknowingly. Has anyone even refuted his guilt convincingly? That is a serious crime and also one with a clear paper trail. If he did it, there…

Insider trading is only a crime when people want to find you guilty of a crime. That's why congresscritters are not prosecutable for insider trading. Insider trading is the entire point of trading, you wouldn't make any money if everyone had the same information.

Perhaps those with the right type of political power/influence are able to shield their trading activity from SEC scrutiny. But trying to use this guy as an example of the "You commit three felonies a day" argument? Really?

Do we all commit three felonies a day unknowingly? Maybe. But the suggestion that tens of millions of dollars in insider trading falls into that category, is flat-out demented.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#90

Post by cinquemb »

npongratz wrote: post #81
pekk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are working at will for pay, you are not being enslaved. Get a grip.

True only if chattel slavery were the only kind of slavery. The ruling masters treat those who work "at will for pay" like livestock when the masters demand taxes, threatening violence upon those who withhold the protection money. The livestock are being milked with every paycheck. We definitely do not live in a system of chattel slavery, but that's only because chattel slavery is so much less efficient (for the mast…

Some people need directives from their friendly public institutions as to what slavery is and what can be construed as such.

Some people would also be surprised to know that some colonists referred to themselves as slaves[0]…

[0]: http://youtu.be/3EiSymRrKI4?t=9m22s

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