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You commit three felonies a day

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Re: You commit three felonies a day

#31

Post by alan_cx »

Kiro wrote: post #20
einhverfr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silverglate talks about a number of cases, some of which have been addressed either before the book was written or after, but the overall problem is still out there. For example, see the honest services fraud charges against Jeff Skilling (of Enron fame), on the idea that anything dishonest any corporate executive might do would be depriving the corporation of honest services. Now the Supreme Court reversed Skilling'…

No, I want to know what felonies I commit.

How can that be answered? No one here follows and monitors you 24/7.

However, your luck is in. Now you can just ask the NSA...

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#32

Post by kolinko »

There was a soviet saying - "Give me a person, I'll find you an article/a paragraph". Meaning - for any person, finding a law that the person breaks is just a matter of time and resources.

It's interesting to see Americans discover this...

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#33

Post by einhverfr »

ownagefool wrote: post #29
Kiro wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I want to know what felonies I commit.

Part of the point is you aren't supposed to know, otherwise you'll be able to stop doing them and the authorities will lose their potential future leverage. Another way to look at it is you aren't, but should you come to the right peoples attention, they'll figure out how to bend the rules enough so that you are. No way of really knowing until laws are rolled back, simplified, and followed both from within the confin…

Almost. They aren't discrete things. They need to be laws that can be stretched to include everyone. That way it doesn't actually matter what you do.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#34

Post by taoufix »

Kiro wrote: post #20
einhverfr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silverglate talks about a number of cases, some of which have been addressed either before the book was written or after, but the overall problem is still out there. For example, see the honest services fraud charges against Jeff Skilling (of Enron fame), on the idea that anything dishonest any corporate executive might do would be depriving the corporation of honest services. Now the Supreme Court reversed Skilling'…

No, I want to know what felonies I commit.

Maybe one of these:

* Illegal downloads.

* Forwarding a corporate email.

* Some weird term of service in one of the dozen "I read and accept these terms" check-boxes you clicked.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#35

Post by coldtea »

rmc wrote: post #23

Sometimes I get a whiff of nostalgia from posts like this. As if everything was great back in the good old days, where the police weren't able to hassle you, when laws were fair and simple. Of course that was only if you were a white anglo cis straight christian. Anyone who didn't fit that was able to be prosecuted/killed/oppressed/jailed. But if we pretend those people don't exist, then everything was great in the p…

>Sometimes I get a whiff of nostalgia from posts like this. As if everything was great back in the good old days, where the police weren't able to hassle you, when laws were fair and simple.

People keep repeating this reasoning. I can't understand why.

"Everything" doesn't have to have been "better in the old days", and nobody, except strawmen, argue that.

But SOME aspects of the old days, e.g pertaining to LESS fucking SURVEILLANCE, were. That's enough to be angry about and want to reverse course on that particular front.

>Of course that was only if you were a white anglo cis straight christian.

Which is totally beside the point.

Did somebody argue here that slavery was good? No, people just argue that modern surveillance (and legal-code-overload) is bad.

Not to mention that surveillance today is bad for everyone: "white anglo cis straight christians", homosexuals, blacks, and what have you.

We should not mix up orthogonal issues.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#36

Post by coldtea »

Kiro wrote: post #20
einhverfr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silverglate talks about a number of cases, some of which have been addressed either before the book was written or after, but the overall problem is still out there. For example, see the honest services fraud charges against Jeff Skilling (of Enron fame), on the idea that anything dishonest any corporate executive might do would be depriving the corporation of honest services. Now the Supreme Court reversed Skilling'…

No, I want to know what felonies I commit.

Then ask a fucking lawyer.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#37

Post by crusso »

ubernostrum wrote: post #15
Uchikoma wrote: post #9

From Atlas Shrugged: “Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. [...] There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”

Since posting this quote is apparently now a thing that happens in practically every HN thread, I will take the opportunity to repost this reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5708196

Jeez, it took you all of three sentences to get "Self-centered philosophies" in there in your hate-on for the economic portion of Rand's philosophy.

This thread and the quote to which you responded are really about the creation of criminals by those in power through the manipulation of arbitrary law.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#38

Post by crusso »

rmc wrote: post #23

Sometimes I get a whiff of nostalgia from posts like this. As if everything was great back in the good old days, where the police weren't able to hassle you, when laws were fair and simple. Of course that was only if you were a white anglo cis straight christian. Anyone who didn't fit that was able to be prosecuted/killed/oppressed/jailed. But if we pretend those people don't exist, then everything was great in the p…

Of course that was only if you were a white anglo cis straight christian.

I always find this line to be the lead-in for a false dichotomy. Either we have this big overpowering government with tentacles into all our lives or we have slavery.

We could instead maintain our sense of respect for all people of all races while also respecting the individual and the civil society enough to allow it to function without the iron fist of government.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#39

Post by huherto »

danso wrote: post #7
ck2 wrote: post #5

And the felony history never goes away now. Just think, a child who gets their first smartphone today, will have their entire phone history recorded until death. Their geolocation saved. Their email saved. All their financial transactions. All their friends and family will be known. Every intercontact in society. Where they shop, eat, etc. Who they date. I mean why would the NSA ever delete it? They can just get taxp…

I've become more bearish about the idea of electronic medical records. The ability for a bureaucracy to keep those safe seems far, far off in the future, no matter what technology advances come through. And guns: well, if you're pro-gun-control, this mindset (justified or not) should help you understand why the NRA is so passionately against gun registration of any kind. In terms of the NSA: I don't think they care m…

All this NSA discovery has made a lot of damage.

As an example, the NRA doesn't sound so crazy any more. And that is bad.

Re: You commit three felonies a day

#40

Post by xradionut »

ck2 wrote: post #5

And the felony history never goes away now. Just think, a child who gets their first smartphone today, will have their entire phone history recorded until death. Their geolocation saved. Their email saved. All their financial transactions. All their friends and family will be known. Every intercontact in society. Where they shop, eat, etc. Who they date. I mean why would the NSA ever delete it? They can just get taxp…

"But I suspect the NSA doesn't know how many guns you own. That alone is somehow seen as a violation of your rights"

Have you purchased a firearm in the US from a licensed dealer recently? There's paper/digital record of most firearm purchase in most cases, with a few exceptions. There's a cursory background check ran too.

(In the case of most US citizens the government doesn't care about small arms. Most are used for sporting, hunting or deterrence.)

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