Given the size of the infrastructiure they have id say its multiple sources one of which includes ISP level optical taps/aggregation
Definitely, but this isn't what PRISM is about.
Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
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Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#12I have more or less a reaction like this. I think the best approach to a FISA order is to say "sure, no problem. We will have this all printed, bound, and shipped to you surface mail within 24 hour, preferably from our outsourced printing office in the Yucatan (it's a lot of pages and we don't have the equipment in house to do that). And on the off chance you want it to be electronically readable, we will print it ou…
...if you want to middle-finger the US government. But why would Google, Facebook, et al want to middle-finger the government - a government that could massively help or hinder their ability to conduct business, etc?
Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#13Justin Schuh is a google chrome security employee and former military/agency contractor with a TS clearance, who hinted that it is basically a REST API on his twitter feed. That's getting pretty close to Arrington's theory. https://twitter.com/justinschuh He's a little drunk on the red, white and blue kool-aid, right now and lashing out, but he had some comments earlier. (make your own interpretation, I don't know hi…
Some interesting context, Morgan Mayhem/@headhntr, who he is debating with, is also a Google Security employee.
Interesting given they are having this conversation in public and that their joint-employer (where they both hold a security-orientated role) is directly implicated in this story.
Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#14> "It can begin surveillance a week before making the request to the secret court, and the surveillance can continue during the appeals process if, in a rare case, the spy court rejects the surveillance application."
How can this be constitutional? Doesn't the 4th amendment say you need probable cause before spying/searching on someone? I've also read that the NSA is spying on some, and then gives the info to the FBI, "which now has probable cause". It seems to me they are doing nothing more and nothing less than fishing expeditions, which are illegal/unconstitutional. I really hope someone manages to bring the Patriot Act and FISA to the Supreme Court this time around.
Also, I seriously believe US needs a Constitutional Court to look at all passed bills by Congress, before they become laws. Congress doesn't seem to care about the Constitution anymore and just passes stuff to make all sorts of things "legal", and could be a decade or two before they even arrive at the Supreme Court, especially with the president trying to fight them at every turn, and with all sorts of gag orders and whatnot - rules they are making to prevent you from even suing them over it. This is becoming increasingly more common with the worst of the worst laws.
I know there are some arguments against Constitutional Courts, but they are working quite well in Europe, and if they have a secret FISA Court that rubber stamps all the spying anyway, how much more damage could a Constitutional Court (that would be public, obviously) do? And of course, the laws could still arrive at the Supreme Court later, and judges would still have to verify their constitutionality in trials, just like today.
At least Americans would have an extra check on their governments from passing all sorts of crazy laws, thinking they get away with it, and might even leave office by the time it arrives at the Supreme Court, and passing these laws days before Christmas. At least it would stop the majority of crazy laws being passed by Congress.
The system you have now is simply not good enough anymore. Not when Congress and the president are breaking their oath to the Constitution on a daily basis.
Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#15This analysis sounds very reasonable and realistic; it does fit the evidence we have so far. The key insight is "automated process" -- and I'm sure the companies involved were really happy with that solution.
This part is a little naive though: "The NSA can begin surveillance on someone(s) for a full week before they have to get the rubber stamp from the secret court"
Since everything is secret, it's difficult for anyone to examine or challenge what the NSA does. If they have a week before going to court it means they have eternity, because no one is going to make sure that provision is always observed.
Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#16Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#17We already know a bit about Google's automated wiretap system for Gmail, because it was the system that the Chinese attacked in 2009/2010 in an attempt to access the accounts of Tibetan human right's campaigners.[1][2]
Bruce Schneier wrote a bit about this back in 2010[3]
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before, since it's public confirmation of much of what the PRISM documents say, on the record.
[1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/chines...
[2] http://www.techcentral.ie/21618/aurora-hackers-may-have-acce...
[3] http://edition.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.ha...
Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#18> "It can begin surveillance a week before making the request to the secret court, and the surveillance can continue during the appeals process if, in a rare case, the spy court rejects the surveillance application." How can this be constitutional? Doesn't the 4th amendment say you need probable cause before spying/searching on someone? I've also read that the NSA is spying on some, and then gives the info to the FBI…
One of the biggest criticisms of democracy is that it would be too slow of a process, when, for example someone runs a plain into a business building and kills lots of people.
So the founders of America created something called setting the country into a "state of emergency" which grants certain rights and privileges not normally legal. They didn't think that the government would be so power hungry that they'd just leave this feature permanently on.
They were wrong.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/11/messag...
Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#19We already know a bit about Google's automated wiretap system for Gmail, because it was the system that the Chinese attacked in 2009/2010 in an attempt to access the accounts of Tibetan human right's campaigners.[1][2] Bruce Schneier wrote a bit about this back in 2010[3] I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before, since it's public confirmation of much of what the PRISM documents say, on the record. [1] http://w…
Great find, so Aurora may have been an attack on Prism. Thats a very good demonstration of the dangers of these systems.
Re: Connecting the PRISM Dots: A New Theory on How PRISM Works
#20"Meanwhile, the BBC has learned that Twitter was invited to join the Prism programme last year, but rejected the approach from US authorities." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22824379
What would be the point? The vast majority of the data is public, and Twitter will give you firehose access (essentially a stream of all tweets) if you ask nicely.