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NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

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141–150 of 359 posts

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear U.S. Navy, Where are your nuclear subs and what are their missions? Sincerely, Definitely a U.S. citizen

Why exactly do we still need nuclear subs? I'm not trying to be a troll, or funny. What threat is currently best dealt with by deploying ICBMs in nuclear subs? And why is the money better spent on that than on any other alternative use?

MAD works.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#142
post #104

We don't need an NSA or CIA or any other spy agency. I know I'm an extremist on government secrets, but I think there should be none. Nothing should be outside the reach of a FOIA request. In my ideal world all government officials' documents and emails would be made publicly accesible in real time, they're working for us. Any exception or loophole to transparency gets abused, every time. If that makes it harder to c…

There are an absurd number of things that it makes sense for the government to keep from the public and not divesting that information but keeping the people who have that information accountable is what elections are for. You want to know what officers are working under cover in the police force? Who are informants on terrorist organizations working against the state? The home phone numbers and addresses of all publ…

Almost all confidential informants are engaged in the Drug War. There is a pretty strong argument that whole thing is counterproductive.

There is no global existential threat that is anywhere near as grave as the nuclear standoff with the Soviet Union once was.

So, where is secrecy really needed? Is it more than 5% of the secrecy we have?

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#143
post #137
post #104

We don't need an NSA or CIA or any other spy agency. I know I'm an extremist on government secrets, but I think there should be none. Nothing should be outside the reach of a FOIA request. In my ideal world all government officials' documents and emails would be made publicly accesible in real time, they're working for us. Any exception or loophole to transparency gets abused, every time. If that makes it harder to c…

Unfortunately we don't live in a world of ideals. With complete transparency comes little ability for security. Terrorist attempts become more frequent. Crime becomes more rampant and life become more unstable. If you ask a typical American if they are willing to die for their freedom, very few would. They'd rather the security. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just true.

>With complete transparency comes little ability for security. Terrorist attempts become more frequent. Crime becomes more rampant and life become more unstable.

I understand how it can seem that way, and I'm not criticizing, but is there any evidence anywhere for these claims?

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#144

I find this kind of thing particularly interesting because I am the same age as Snowden. For reference, 9/11 is one of the defining events of my adult life. It happened during freshman physics lecture on my second week of classes at MIT. I considered joining the military, I protested in the streets against the war in Iraq. I remember the Patriot act being passed very well, and remember wishing people could see how sh…

Have you seen the spin the mainstream media is putting on this issue?

It's sickening.

If the issue is covered (earlier, CNN felt it necessary to talk about oversized rubber-duckies and some phenomenon called 'crazy ants' instead), coverage NEVER questions the existence of the surveillance itself. Instead, the WAY the government handles the surveillance is questioned (contracting it out, etc).

So, yes, in a perfect world, people would see this news and question it, where 'it' is the existence of such egregious surveillance measures.

Unfortunately, the majority of Americans aren't that thorough in their thinking, and instead will ponder the questions the mainstream media feeds them.

And these questions just so happen to be pure bullshit.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#145
post #3

46 points in fifteen minutes and not a single comment? This NSA issue is seeming less and less like a discussion topic and more like a echo chamber, despite the rampant lack of information on all sides of the event.

This whole story has had a baffling effect on HN. For the last few days 4/5ths of everything on the frontpage has been related to the NSA. I'm not saying that its not an important issue, but Christ do we need to have every bloggers opinion upvoted to the top? Even Apple was only able to make the top of front page for a short time. This is HN and Apple's latest news is not the top story. It's like I'm on a completely…

For one thing, it's the only interesting thing that has happened in American politics since... Watergate, maybe?

Second, if the resolution doesn't go far enough to restore confidence in US cloud and telecom technology companies, it could have a large effect on the tech economy.

Third, the only practical solution may to adopt real security measures: End-to-end strong encryption. Encrypted storage. Audited open source systems.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#146
post #104

We don't need an NSA or CIA or any other spy agency. I know I'm an extremist on government secrets, but I think there should be none. Nothing should be outside the reach of a FOIA request. In my ideal world all government officials' documents and emails would be made publicly accesible in real time, they're working for us. Any exception or loophole to transparency gets abused, every time. If that makes it harder to c…

I agree that we need radical transparency in government, but I think this goes too far.

First, we have to recognize that these are still people, and people do not function well with zero privacy (which is part of the problem here).

Second, any information the government keeps about me should be kept secret from others (though I should be able to pull - and contest - it, potentially with a time delay if I am being investigated).

However, we really do need to open things up. Secret programs in particular are fundamentally broken in a democracy - supposedly, our elected officials have oversight; but we have no means of assessing how good of a job they are doing in that capacity.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are an absurd number of things that it makes sense for the government to keep from the public and not divesting that information but keeping the people who have that information accountable is what elections are for. You want to know what officers are working under cover in the police force? Who are informants on terrorist organizations working against the state? The home phone numbers and addresses of all publ…

You are correct. But also there is not much an election can do when they have rigged the elections with Gerrymandering and first across the fence voting. There's a district in one state that goes out to sea and back. Corrupt as fuck.

More importantly, it mean we just have one more person saying "trust us" - we have no means of telling how good a job they're doing in any secret oversight role. I'm sure your congressperson is fantastic, but the notion that congress broadly will reliably serve our interests over those of potential donors with more access is far fetched.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#148
post #144

I find this kind of thing particularly interesting because I am the same age as Snowden. For reference, 9/11 is one of the defining events of my adult life. It happened during freshman physics lecture on my second week of classes at MIT. I considered joining the military, I protested in the streets against the war in Iraq. I remember the Patriot act being passed very well, and remember wishing people could see how sh…

Have you seen the spin the mainstream media is putting on this issue? It's sickening. If the issue is covered (earlier, CNN felt it necessary to talk about oversized rubber-duckies and some phenomenon called 'crazy ants' instead), coverage NEVER questions the existence of the surveillance itself. Instead, the WAY the government handles the surveillance is questioned (contracting it out, etc). So, yes, in a perfect wo…

>coverage NEVER questions the existence of the surveillance itself. Instead, the WAY the government handles the surveillance is questioned (contracting it out, etc).

So true. I saw a headline today that read "Booz Allen contracts in jeapoardy after NSA leak?" and I thought really? that's what's what we should be asking for?

Well at least in my family the dialogue has been: wow, what a young, smart, brave guy.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#149
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's Advocate: are we really upset that an unfolding scandal involving the right to privacy is displacing content about a shiny new product launch? It's kind of interesting to witness the interaction between HN's overlapping circles of technologists, civil libertarians, and entrepreneurs. To be fair, I agree that we need to avoid letting this discussion devolve into a frenzied mob of speculation. Misinformation ca…

I'm not saying its terrible that HN is in an uproar over this, its just that I haven't seen HN this dominated by one topic since Steve Jobs died. There does seem to be a major lack of information on the issue though and unfortunately this topic always brings out some of the more "eccentric" members of the tech industry. I'm sick of seeing hyperbole comments like "we need a revolution", "we are in a police state", "Am…

The entire frontpage was Aaron Swartz links when he died earlier this year.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#150
post #56

I'M MAD AS HELL...AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!! “This administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we provide. I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining the Constitution and our freedom. That means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No mor…

>I'M MAD AS HELL...AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!

I understand your anger.... and i am curious: what actions are you planning to take?

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