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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#341

Post by nitrogen »

mpyne wrote: post #303
rhizome wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that the legal definition of "legitimate" is what's changed.

That's the whole point to 'reasonable' though. It allows the effect of the law to change without changing the law itself. This has worked against the government as often as it's worked for the government. And on the whole it has been instrumental in driving social change for the better. The same Supreme Court that voted that equality could exist with "sepatate-but-equal" facilities later voted that separate-but-equal…

The problem with "reasonableness" is that there's no single definition of what's reasonable, so you'll get different courts giving different verdicts in similar cases. Instead, couldn't we define things very strictly, but require them to be revised every n years with the current needs and expectations of society?

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#342

Post by vbuterin »

ScottBurson wrote: post #283
mindcrime wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, I believe that there is not an explicit "right to privacy" and therefore there is not a right to privacy. So are you saying that a "right" has to be explicitly spelled out in the BoR in order to be a right? If that's what you mean, then how the heck does a "strict constructionist" get that to jibe with the 9th Amendment? The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny o…

Yeah, that's the funny thing about the Ninth. It pretty much says, you shall not construe the other amendments strictly. Kinda puts strict constructionists in a bind -- which was clearly its purpose.

Not really; strict constitutionalists can still say that the government should never infringe on amendments 1...8,10, and if it can intrude even less (ie. add more rights) then that's great. In fact, I think that was the whole point of writing the constitution that way.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#343

Post by jaekwon »

thetwiceler wrote: post #185

I think this is really hyperbolic. The fact is that Snowden violated the conditions of his Top Secret security clearance, which is a crime that is subject to criminal prosecution. Now, I'd argue the leak that Snowden made was much more acceptable than, if he had revealed the identities of CIA spies to foreign countries and caused them to be killed. Nevertheless, we are a nation guided by rule of law, and it would be…

Yes, and I wonder if Nazi Germany had laws regarding Jews.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#344

Post by jaekwon »

thetwiceler wrote: post #185

I think this is really hyperbolic. The fact is that Snowden violated the conditions of his Top Secret security clearance, which is a crime that is subject to criminal prosecution. Now, I'd argue the leak that Snowden made was much more acceptable than, if he had revealed the identities of CIA spies to foreign countries and caused them to be killed. Nevertheless, we are a nation guided by rule of law, and it would be…

Yes, and I wonder if Nazi Germany had laws regarding Jews.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#345

Post by jaekwon »

thetwiceler wrote: post #185

I think this is really hyperbolic. The fact is that Snowden violated the conditions of his Top Secret security clearance, which is a crime that is subject to criminal prosecution. Now, I'd argue the leak that Snowden made was much more acceptable than, if he had revealed the identities of CIA spies to foreign countries and caused them to be killed. Nevertheless, we are a nation guided by rule of law, and it would be…

Yes, and I wonder if Nazi Germany had laws regarding Jews.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#347

Post by mpyne »

nitrogen wrote: post #341
mpyne wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the whole point to 'reasonable' though. It allows the effect of the law to change without changing the law itself. This has worked against the government as often as it's worked for the government. And on the whole it has been instrumental in driving social change for the better. The same Supreme Court that voted that equality could exist with "sepatate-but-equal" facilities later voted that separate-but-equal…

The problem with "reasonableness" is that there's no single definition of what's reasonable, so you'll get different courts giving different verdicts in similar cases. Instead, couldn't we define things very strictly, but require them to be revised every n years with the current needs and expectations of society?

Dude, I can't even get my computer program to not crash on malformed MP3 files, and the computer program + computer does exactly what I tell it to do.

There's no way to get a legal code that is both very exact and useful in the face of humans who have to implement it.

And even if we could, I don't think revising it every n years is good policy. We should change the law when it's broken, but more importantly changes to the law must necessarily lag several election cycles behind the needs and expectations of society. A court can actually make the change quicker if need be.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#349

Post by davidcuddeback »

bmelton wrote: post #230
davidcuddeback wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you cite a source for this information?

Yes (this isn't meant to be sarcastic, but necessary because I had to move this post from where it was to where it is, and HN keeps marking it dead). The DHS is not bound by Posse Comitatus[1]. The DHS has been buying massive amounts of ammo[2][3][4], and most recently, the House has voted to get justification on the quantity of hollow points it is purchasing[5]. It looks like the claim that they're buying large quan…

Thanks. I'm not being snarky or anything either. Just genuinely curious and would like to learn more on the topic. That said, I just looked at your first source and it doesn't support the conclusion that the DHS is exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act. It says that the US Coast Guard is exempt, and that the US Coast Guard operates under the DHS. But it does not follow from those statements that the DHS is exempt.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#350

Post by mahmud »

kbenson wrote: post #246
Abundnce10 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring up a good point. Maybe the best form of protest these days is not to take to the streets but rather take to the highways. Blocking a interstate highway going into/out of a large city might get more attention.

This would be remarkably effective at getting attention, but I'm not sure how beneficial to a cause it would be. If the purpose is to disrupt travel or commerce, it would most likely achieve it's goal almost immediately. If the purpose is to bring attention to some other issue and the disruption of the highway system is unrelated (or only tangentially related), then the attention would have to be weighed against the…

This would be a bad idea, tacically and economically. In a protest, at least in the U.S., you can take measures to protect your identity and not carry any documentation, along with the ability to flee on foot in any direction. You also have no tangible assets on you that the government can seize.

In a vehicle protest you forfeit anonymity (lincense plates), ability to split since road-blocks can easily stop you, and most importantly your vehicle might be impounded.

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