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Why Java is still relevant

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Re: Why Java is still relevant

#51

Post by eranation »

elithrar wrote: post #46
nemothekid wrote: post #9

Also a lot of the de-facto Big Data/NoSQL/Distributed Computing stack is Java(/Scala). Hadoop, HBase, Cassandra, Neo4j, Storm, its actually pretty interesting to note that most of the popular nosql solutions are in Java. On top of that its the number 3 language on Github. I'm not a huge fan of Java but I'd be pretty surprised if someone was saying Java wasn't relevant. Don't quote me on this, but its also the fastest…

> When the author made the claim that Java was as fast as Go, I was a bit surprised. I wasn't aware Go had caught up to Java. As a Go "fan": it hasn't. It's close in some things, faster in a few, but the JVM has years (and years) of performance tuning in it, and Go won't unequivocally beat Java for some time (if ever). (This WiFi connection is failing me right now, but there's a good number of Go vs. Java benchmarks…

I was only referring to the Web framework benchmark, where Go (1.1 I think) is taking the lead over Servlets on many of the benchmarks. Still impressive.

Re: Why Java is still relevant

#52

Post by Zigurd »

A great irony about the use of Java as a language for interactive systems is that it only took off when deeply enmeshing a Java-ish runtime with Android freed Java from the constraints of "write once run anywhere."

It turns out that OSs have diverse interactive frameworks with different capabilities, and OSs compete on the basis of those differences. In Android, this divergence from other OSs includes the ability to install aftermarket middleware in Android's userland.

Re: Why Java is still relevant

#53

Post by eranation »

cpeterso wrote: post #34
eranation wrote: post #2

This is one of my first posts, and English is not my native language, so comments not just on the content but also on the language are more than welcome.

I was impressed by your clear writing. Some minor suggestions since you asked for feedback: * "mandatory requirement" is redundant. If something's not mandatory, then it's not a requirement! :) * "Many admit that as much as Java is not much fun to write code with, the JVM is a different story." : This sentence is awkward. Perhaps something like: "Many admit Java code is not much fun to write, but the JVM doesn't limi…

Great feedback, I will certainly look up these books, thanks!

Re: Why Java is still relevant

#54

Post by codygman »

jebblue wrote: post #29

>> Stream.of(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7) .map(x -> x * x).filter(x -> x % 2 == 0) .reduce(0, (sum, x) -> sum + x); If I catch anyone writing Java code that I will have to work on writing Lambda expression crap like the above I will hit the ceiling. How can you debug junk like that?

How can you not debug "junk" like that?

Re: Why Java is still relevant

#55

Post by nemothekid »

elithrar wrote: post #46
nemothekid wrote: post #9

Also a lot of the de-facto Big Data/NoSQL/Distributed Computing stack is Java(/Scala). Hadoop, HBase, Cassandra, Neo4j, Storm, its actually pretty interesting to note that most of the popular nosql solutions are in Java. On top of that its the number 3 language on Github. I'm not a huge fan of Java but I'd be pretty surprised if someone was saying Java wasn't relevant. Don't quote me on this, but its also the fastest…

> When the author made the claim that Java was as fast as Go, I was a bit surprised. I wasn't aware Go had caught up to Java. As a Go "fan": it hasn't. It's close in some things, faster in a few, but the JVM has years (and years) of performance tuning in it, and Go won't unequivocally beat Java for some time (if ever). (This WiFi connection is failing me right now, but there's a good number of Go vs. Java benchmarks…

That was my reaction as well. We are using Go in production here and I'm very much a Go fan, but I'd be surprised if Go caught up to Java in so little time.

Re: Why Java is still relevant

#56

Post by [deleted] »

eranation wrote: post #51
elithrar wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the author made the claim that Java was as fast as Go, I was a bit surprised. I wasn't aware Go had caught up to Java. As a Go "fan": it hasn't. It's close in some things, faster in a few, but the JVM has years (and years) of performance tuning in it, and Go won't unequivocally beat Java for some time (if ever). (This WiFi connection is failing me right now, but there's a good number of Go vs. Java benchmarks…

I was only referring to the Web framework benchmark, where Go (1.1 I think) is taking the lead over Servlets on many of the benchmarks. Still impressive.

[deleted]

Re: Why Java is still relevant

#57

Post by UberMouse »

jimmaswell wrote: post #32
jebblue wrote: post #29

>> Stream.of(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7) .map(x -> x * x).filter(x -> x % 2 == 0) .reduce(0, (sum, x) -> sum + x); If I catch anyone writing Java code that I will have to work on writing Lambda expression crap like the above I will hit the ceiling. How can you debug junk like that?

I write code like that with LINQ and such in .NET all the time and have no problem debugging it.

Is there actually a way to properly debug LINQ expressions? I haven't figured out how to get Visual Studio to step through lambdas or break halfway through the chain (eg break after the filter call has completed and before reduce runs in the above example).

But I'm not sure if I'm missing some blindingly obvious.

Re: Why Java is still relevant

#58

Post by eranation »

nemothekid wrote: post #55
elithrar wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the author made the claim that Java was as fast as Go, I was a bit surprised. I wasn't aware Go had caught up to Java. As a Go "fan": it hasn't. It's close in some things, faster in a few, but the JVM has years (and years) of performance tuning in it, and Go won't unequivocally beat Java for some time (if ever). (This WiFi connection is failing me right now, but there's a good number of Go vs. Java benchmarks…

That was my reaction as well. We are using Go in production here and I'm very much a Go fan, but I'd be surprised if Go caught up to Java in so little time.

I was referring to this benchmark: http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/

Re: Why Java is still relevant

#59

Post by depsypher »

I've given up any hope of Java ever being considered a sexy language. Its philosophy has been the polar opposite of 'move fast and break things' at least in terms of how the language has evolved. That's been mostly a good thing, though frustrating. The language features are catching up now with the 'sexy' languages and it's pretty exciting.

Still one of the biggest problems with Java I think is the plethora of options you have when building a web stack. And integrating everything is a huge pain. There are options like dropwizard or play, but those bake in too much of their own assumptions for my taste. If anyone is interested in seeing what a modern Java web stack looks like, check out my attempt at it here: https://github.com/depsypher/flapjack

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