NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#71

Post by EthanHeilman » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:06 PM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #59

EthanHeilman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know the Icelandic embassy in Hong Kong.

I hope he doesn't end up as another guy trapped in an embassy. With any luck he'll actually make it to the country.

Hong Kong is not controlled by the USAUK intelligence corpus so they would probably respect diplomatic privilege and allow him to leave for Iceland as long as he does so under diplomatic protection.

It is probably also the case the UK wouldn't arrest Assange if he left under diplomatic protection, despite their claims that they would, since it would be a gross violation of diplomatic protocol. Remember that a Libyan opened fire on a crowd of Londoners from balcony of the Libyan embassy with a sub-machine gun, killing a young police woman and the UK still allowed the shooter to leave the country without charges. Diplomatic protocol is one of the strongest traditions of nations, breaching it is a serious blow to international perception of a nations trustworthiness (think red wedding). The UK is likely bluffing but Assange doesn't want to take the chance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher

Hong Kong is unlikely to threaten gross violation of diplomatic protocol over a mere extradition request.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#72

Post by javajosh » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:09 PM UTC

Taylorious wrote: post #26

jmduke wrote: post #3

46 points in fifteen minutes and not a single comment? This NSA issue is seeming less and less like a discussion topic and more like a echo chamber, despite the rampant lack of information on all sides of the event.

This whole story has had a baffling effect on HN. For the last few days 4/5ths of everything on the frontpage has been related to the NSA. I'm not saying that its not an important issue, but Christ do we need to have every bloggers opinion upvoted to the top? Even Apple was only able to make the top of front page for a short time. This is HN and Apple's latest news is not the top story. It's like I'm on a completely…

What astounds me is that the mainstream media is not similarly in uproar. People don't seem to understand what this means: the government is spying on us, it is lying about the spying, and now it is telling us to not worry about it, to just move along, AND WE'RE DOING IT.

This is the most alarming thing I've seen in my adult life.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#73

Post by bbit » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:10 PM UTC

So now breaking laws and committing treason is the new "patriotism" - I'll make note of this. Bradely Manning and this guy belong in the same jail cell or executed prefer the latter.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#74

Post by EthanHeilman » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:12 PM UTC

michaelwww wrote: post #44

Does anyone else find it ironic that they couldn't detect Snowdon communicating with Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras?

That is because the NSA's spying program only works against those that believe they "have nothing to hide". Terrorists or whistle blowers that take even moderate precautions are immune.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#75

Post by bdamm » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:14 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #72

Taylorious wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole story has had a baffling effect on HN. For the last few days 4/5ths of everything on the frontpage has been related to the NSA. I'm not saying that its not an important issue, but Christ do we need to have every bloggers opinion upvoted to the top? Even Apple was only able to make the top of front page for a short time. This is HN and Apple's latest news is not the top story. It's like I'm on a completely…

What astounds me is that the mainstream media is not similarly in uproar. People don't seem to understand what this means: the government is spying on us, it is lying about the spying, and now it is telling us to not worry about it, to just move along, AND WE'RE DOING IT. This is the most alarming thing I've seen in my adult life.

Considering how codified lying to the public is in American law, I have to start wondering how codified lying to the President is in Intelligence Community practices.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#76

Post by thret » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:14 PM UTC

alan_cx wrote: post #57

Neither word apply. "Patriot", to me, suggests a unquestioning loyalty, lack of thought or perspective. "Traitor" suggests selling out both government and people to a foreign enemy. Both are too broad, blunt, and loaded to describe anything useful. What this man did was expose the government for the sake of the very people the government are supposed to answer to. The problem his the the huge disconnect between gover…

A patriot is loyal to his country, not his government. It doesn't imply to me any negative impressions along the line you've described.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#77

Post by freepipi » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:16 PM UTC

alan_cx wrote: post #57

Neither word apply. "Patriot", to me, suggests a unquestioning loyalty, lack of thought or perspective. "Traitor" suggests selling out both government and people to a foreign enemy. Both are too broad, blunt, and loaded to describe anything useful. What this man did was expose the government for the sake of the very people the government are supposed to answer to. The problem his the the huge disconnect between gover…

I cannot imagine that NSA hired one guy like him.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#78

Post by radley » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:16 PM UTC

To call him a whistleblower would presume wrongdoing.

The govt can't admit to wrongdoing, so they have to use the word traitor.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#79

Post by jivatmanx » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:17 PM UTC

michaelwww wrote: post #44

Does anyone else find it ironic that they couldn't detect Snowdon communicating with Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras?

The old HBGary case revealed that Greenwald was being extensively targeted by various defense contractors. I'll be he now takes measures.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#80

Post by michaelwww » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 11:18 PM UTC

EthanHeilman wrote: post #74

michaelwww wrote: post #44

Does anyone else find it ironic that they couldn't detect Snowdon communicating with Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras?

That is because the NSA's spying program only works against those that believe they "have nothing to hide". Terrorists or whistle blowers that take even moderate precautions are immune.

That's another bunch of billions down the drain, unless it's designed for another purpose entirely. A certain segment of the elite have always dreamed about tracking every citizen. Larry Ellison of Oracle famously proposed a National Identity Card. So it goes...