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NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

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Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#21

Post by godgod »

suyash wrote: post #9

In my opinion, he is a Traitor just like Bradley Manning for jeopardizing National Security.

National security...give me a break.

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." - Benjamin Franklin

Make no mistake, we live in very dangerous world but it's now clear that the danger is being generated or at least perpetuated by the US government. The war on terror is a lie. We're openly funding terror. The police state is here. The industrial military complex war machine will never stop.

The Patriot act is a danger to free people everywhere. What's wrong with getting a warrant? Due process and the US constitution is dead and you are okay with that? He is not Bradley Manning. Bradley Manning leak may have caused people to get killed. Some people don't want to live in a world where they are not free. You may be fine with that...I'm not.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#22

Post by grecy »

suyash wrote: post #9

In my opinion, he is a Traitor just like Bradley Manning for jeopardizing National Security.

How does letting everyone know the government is listening jeopardize National Security?

If anything, I expect it would increase National Security, as everyone will toe the line more and more for fear of getting caught.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#23

Post by tsotha »

suyash wrote: post #9

In my opinion, he is a Traitor just like Bradley Manning for jeopardizing National Security.

Even if you think, as I do, Manning should have the book thrown at him, the Snowden case is quite a bit different. For one thing, Manning took a bunch of classified data he couldn't possibly have gone through in any detail and dumped it on the internet. People probably died as a result, and certainly it hurt US diplomatic efforts. It only takes five minutes of reading before you realize Bradly Manning has psychological problems and should never have been allowed access to anything important, and his data dump was probably more about his personal problems than it was about any kind of principle.

Snowden's case is quite a bit different. He only released details about the program he was familiar with. Clearly he broke the law and clearly he's forsworn, but IMO you can make a much better case for leniency or even a pardon.

Given the way this administration has been going after leakers (would have been the sign of Hitler's second coming had it been Bush) he shouldn't hold his breath expecting a pardon.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#24

Post by mike_herrera »

godgod wrote: post #10

This applies today more than ever. Up vote if you agree. First they came for the conservatives, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a conservative. Then they came for the tea party member, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a tea party member. Then they came for the Libertarians, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a libertarian. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.…

False equivalencies, my friend.

Also, you seemed to have missed the indiscriminate nature of the intelligence gathering. There were no divisions being targeted-- it was all of us.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#25

Post by godgod »

josh2600 wrote: post #18
godgod wrote: post #10

This applies today more than ever. Up vote if you agree. First they came for the conservatives, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a conservative. Then they came for the tea party member, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a tea party member. Then they came for the Libertarians, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a libertarian. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.…

This is everything I hate about Reddit/Chain Letters/Mom and Dads Internet. You can make lists and ask for upvotes, but instead why don't you go and do some activism. Get off your ass and organize meetings, raise hell until you get people to care about the things you care about. Sending chain letters on HackerNews is the most Masturbatory thing you can do on the internet besides the deed itself.

https://www.eff.org/action

Offline action taken. I protest and don't just sit on my ass. I spread the word. Comments on hn is just one mechanism. I fully agree with you though, get off your ass and do something.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#26

Post by Taylorious »

jmduke wrote: post #3

46 points in fifteen minutes and not a single comment? This NSA issue is seeming less and less like a discussion topic and more like a echo chamber, despite the rampant lack of information on all sides of the event.

This whole story has had a baffling effect on HN. For the last few days 4/5ths of everything on the frontpage has been related to the NSA. I'm not saying that its not an important issue, but Christ do we need to have every bloggers opinion upvoted to the top? Even Apple was only able to make the top of front page for a short time. This is HN and Apple's latest news is not the top story. It's like I'm on a completely different site.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#28

Post by mpyne »

dllthomas wrote: post #2

'[T]he word "pardon" is trouncing "extradition"' To be fair, I think more people know the word "pardon" than the word "extradition"...

And likewise there's a big difference between being inflamed about the issue and actually wanting to see the guy get punished.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#30

Post by larrys »

jmduke wrote: post #3

46 points in fifteen minutes and not a single comment? This NSA issue is seeming less and less like a discussion topic and more like a echo chamber, despite the rampant lack of information on all sides of the event.

"46 points in fifteen minutes and not a single comment?"

Keep in mind also that when someone submit the same URL as already submitted it increases the count. So someone reading that article and not checking that it's already been posted counts toward that 46. I'm only mentioning because I've done this and I've had stories upvoted to, say, 10 that never were commented on.

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