Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

Post by mcgwiz » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 9:12 PM UTC

jpdoctor wrote: post #121

newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

> Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. Looks like false attribution according to wikiquote. (Why do people feel the need to use proof by authority anyway? Either a thing is right, or it is insightful, but attributing it to dead 18th century rebels does not bolster the case.) ________________________________ When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the…

Post by aluhut » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 9:33 PM UTC

_airh wrote: post #8

It is strange that the same country which cherishes its 'right to bear arms' on the grounds that it gives them a level of protection that the government is unable to provide is 'happy' to build the infrastructure which allows the same government to peek into their lives. On the one hand, we don't trust the government with the basics (physical security). On the other, we trust them with information we don't want our p…

Post by baddox » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 9:42 PM UTC

powertower wrote: post #87

stevoski wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, as a New Zealander living in Spain. I've been staggered over the last decade or so to hear of the USA performing: * "extraordinary renditions" (kidnapping), sometimes of the wrong person who after months gets dumped in Albania. * "enhanced interrogation techniques" such as waterboarding (torture) * holding people indefinitely without charge or trial in Guantanamo Bay * killing people remotely in foreign coun…

What you posted are a few negative events. What you did not post are the few million or billion positive events that happened at the same time. What you're reading/seeing is an ever increasingly opinionated and vocal crowd that think they possess the truth and are right about everything. They want a perfect system. And a simple system. And worst of all, they don't know what they don't know (how utterly destructive th…

Post by Dylan16807 » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 9:54 PM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #307

bostonpete wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many people seem to assume that most active 2A advocates What's a 2A advocate? I don't think there's any substantial opposition to the 2nd amendment itself. The main discussion surrounding 2A tends to come up any time any sort of restrictions surrounding gun control are raised. Then the crowd of people who view any sort of gun control (background checks!!) as an attack on the 2nd amendment start coming out of the w…

Most of your stereotyped gun owners do not have a categorical opposition to gun control laws. For example, most are not particularly upset with the ban on new machine guns that has been in place for many years. Rather most of the opposition that you see is against pointless laws that target particular cosmetic features of some guns ("assault weapon" laws) or actually overreaching gun laws that pop up in particular ci…

Post by sliverstorm » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 10:07 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #324

powertower wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you posted are a few negative events. What you did not post are the few million or billion positive events that happened at the same time. What you're reading/seeing is an ever increasingly opinionated and vocal crowd that think they possess the truth and are right about everything. They want a perfect system. And a simple system. And worst of all, they don't know what they don't know (how utterly destructive th…

> What you posted are a few negative events. What you did not post are the few million or billion positive events that happened at the same time. But positive and negative events don't cancel each other out. It's not arithmetic. If you have 1,000 excellent meals for every time you get poisoned, the 1,000 excellent meals really aren't relevant and they're certainly no consolation.