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Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

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Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#141

Post by stonemetal »

danenania wrote: post #91
inthewind wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to democracy (or rather the facade)! Does the US president actually have that much individual power anyway? I wish it was more like the film Dave, inasmuch as that the president on his first day questions all the wrongs, and suggests to put them all right! People love a figurehead to moan and blame, but it's not ever as simple as that. I'm not making excuses for Obama, but he's also up against the establishme…

"I'm not making excuses for Obama, but he's also up against the establishment." Obama's not 'up against' the establishment. He is the establishment. After everything he's done, how on earth are people still ascribing good intentions to this guy?

No, he is one small part of the establishment that will be gone in < 4 years. There are senators who have been there decades, there are senior management at government agencies who have been there decades. The president isn't powerless but he is very temporary and fighting against large entrenched organizations. Consider how hard it would be to be the CEO of Microsoft or IBM if everyone under you knew you were going to be in charge for at most 8 years.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#142

Post by coldpie »

ericHosick wrote: post #2

This may seem a bit off topic, but I do agree that we can't go back. So, I'm asking here. We are building out a software development framework "from scratch" and would like to make security a core aspect of the framework. Where would be a good place to start looking at encryption solutions? For example, would PGP be a good option?

Since the story broke last week, I've been thinking about a PKI-based message program (think email, but not actually email) built on top of Freenet, to remove the need of any central server. I think I have a reasonable idea of how it would work, but I'm not convinced it would help anything.

Tools already exist to securely send messages. Someone who truly cares about their security will learn how to use them. People who don't care about security won't bother. Hell, people already put all of their information on the Internet for effectively everybody to view.

What would an easy-to-use, secure crypto app help with? I don't know.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#143

Post by RyanMcGreal »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #23

For me, this incident is an example where the U.S. democracy failed, pure and simple. Obama made campaign promises to not do surveillance. He was elected and then did it anyway. It's frankly impossible now to change this issue in a democratic fashion. From the outside it often looks as if American politicians are overly busy with a very expensive "game", rather than using the game for the greater good.

The real question is whether he is unable or unwilling to do what he promised. If the latter, he's just another disappointing politician. If the former, the US is in real trouble.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#144

Post by Zigurd »

kriro wrote: post #25

I wonder if there will be a bigger outrage if companies like Salesforce and Oracle are involved. Non-US companies might be a tad alarmed if their ERP provider is cooperating with PRISM. Since Microsoft is explicitly mentioned I wonder if the access includes their SMB-ERP stuff.

Don't bet against it. There are supposedly 50 participants. Expect a continuing drop of revelations.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#145

Post by ttrreeww »

b6 wrote: post #17

I'm a peaceful person, but this issue has been simmering in my head for years, and I find myself actually looking forward to some kind of meaningful conflict. I'm sick, sick, sick to death of the president issuing denials while they keep building more and more infrastructure against humanity. I think the article is right, that it'll get worse from here, and in a way, I'm glad.

A global ban on US based technology companies, bank on it, it's coming. Remember the US ban on Huawei? Payback is going to be a b*tch

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#146

Post by betterunix »

icebraining wrote: post #75
taktix wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the American people voted for looks over substance. Obama has no morals and no spine, but he looks and sounds like a Hollywood star. Obama is just the US population's reflection in the mirror.

Yes, they should have voted for substance, for McCain, instead, who just yesterday called this process "appropriate". And of course, the two parties chose to approve and re-approve the PATRIOT act.

Who says it is a choice between two people? You may not have noticed, but there are more than two parties in this country.

How about all the Democrat and Republican voters who talk about choosing the lesser of two evils get over it and vote for third parties whose views they agree with? Stop being cowards and worrying about the "other side."

If anything, we will at least force the major parties to work harder to keep their power.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#147

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

"And so—before the capability was made public, it _likely_ wouldn't have been used against mere political nuisances,"

Wasn't this type of data mining the source of the data leading to the expose' of Eliot Spitzer's bad habits; ultimately leading to his political demise? Exposing philandering politicians, or prostitution, are both far away from what I'd consider an appropriate use of technology.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#148

Post by saryant »

jaynos wrote: post #133
bayesianhorse wrote: post #23

For me, this incident is an example where the U.S. democracy failed, pure and simple. Obama made campaign promises to not do surveillance. He was elected and then did it anyway. It's frankly impossible now to change this issue in a democratic fashion. From the outside it often looks as if American politicians are overly busy with a very expensive "game", rather than using the game for the greater good.

> From the outside it often looks as if American politicians are overly busy with a very expensive "game", rather than using the game for the greater good. This is because the players (Booz Allen, Lockheed, etc) are major campaign donors with huge lobbies). I don't like the corruption of politicians, but I like to believe that if money and lobbying were not involved, Obama (and most of Congress) would do a fine job o…

Booz Allen doesn't actually have a very large lobbying presence.

http://www.politico.com/politicoinfluence/0613/politicoinflu...

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#149

Post by [deleted] »

jaynos wrote: post #133
bayesianhorse wrote: post #23

For me, this incident is an example where the U.S. democracy failed, pure and simple. Obama made campaign promises to not do surveillance. He was elected and then did it anyway. It's frankly impossible now to change this issue in a democratic fashion. From the outside it often looks as if American politicians are overly busy with a very expensive "game", rather than using the game for the greater good.

> From the outside it often looks as if American politicians are overly busy with a very expensive "game", rather than using the game for the greater good. This is because the players (Booz Allen, Lockheed, etc) are major campaign donors with huge lobbies). I don't like the corruption of politicians, but I like to believe that if money and lobbying were not involved, Obama (and most of Congress) would do a fine job o…

[deleted]

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#150

Post by lisper »

stonemetal wrote: post #141
danenania wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm not making excuses for Obama, but he's also up against the establishment." Obama's not 'up against' the establishment. He is the establishment. After everything he's done, how on earth are people still ascribing good intentions to this guy?

No, he is one small part of the establishment that will be gone in < 4 years. There are senators who have been there decades, there are senior management at government agencies who have been there decades. The president isn't powerless but he is very temporary and fighting against large entrenched organizations. Consider how hard it would be to be the CEO of Microsoft or IBM if everyone under you knew you were going…

He still could have chosen to use the bully pulpit to try to improve the situation. Instead he chose to maintain the status quo, specifically breaking a campaign promise. Worse, having been called out on it, he now whines, "But Congress said it was OK" as if that were some kind of justification. It's true that Obama doesn't have the power to singlehandedly change the situation. But he does have more influence than any other individual.
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