Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout • Hacker News Board

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#41

Post by revscat » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:04 PM UTC

joonix wrote: post #33

cryptokill wrote: post #2

This stuff proves to me that these programs have no value in stopping things that have not yet happened. Like the boston bombings and this guy, I sure there was a huge trail of evidence that didn't get identified in time to stop the actual act.

Or that the programs are not being abused widely for surveillance outside of their stated purpose?

Not worth it. The risk from totalitarian regimes is far greater than the risk from terrorism. Governments have more resources, by far. Even if we assume that PRISM is being used completely above-the-board the potential for abuse is still large enough to warrant reconsideration.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#42

Post by randall » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:10 PM UTC

oinksoft wrote: post #28

uvdiv wrote: post #17

This is contradicted somewhat by a different source. This one says Hong Kong is a very good place to seek asylum right now, because there is a moratorium on deporting asylum-seekers: But there is at least one reason it could be incredibly shrewd: Hong Kong's asylum system is currently stuck in a state of limbo that could allow Snowden to exploit a loophole and buy some valuable time. Simon Young, director of the Cent…

Brilliant. It's sad it lends itself so easily to spin, "The Chinese Turned Him!" I expect that is what Americans will be told to believe.

But i mean it's curious he did this right as the Chinese PM was visiting Obama, no?

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#43

Post by EthanHeilman » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:14 PM UTC

AhtiK wrote: post #21

Isn't a luxury hotel the worst place to hide? I'm sure there are cameras and one is easily recognized when getting out of the room. Or is this just a 48h maneuver to clear up the political situation and then if needed move to one of the embassies in HK that is more supportive?

>I'm sure there are cameras and one is easily recognized when getting out of the room.

All those cameras and employees become a protection. Remember when Israel assassinated that arms trafficker in a luxury hotel and all the video footage was released to the internet. It blew ~10+ operatives cover and caused a major diplomatic row about the fake passports used.

If the US took action at the hotel the cost in terms of US covert operatives in China blown would be in 10-100s of millions of dollars in training and recruitment. If the US used a third party they would expose that third party to Chinese intelligence. Not including the media firestorm such an action would cause.

All security is about raising the cost to the attacker, he has raised it significantly but the US still act if Obama so choose. From the US perspective the damage is done, why bring more negative PR at such a high cost?

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#44

Post by JamisonM » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:23 PM UTC

jckt wrote: post #27

_k wrote: post #25

He might have an insurance policy. After all, he had access to other data so if they lock him up, they risk problems bigger than they could ever imagine. He may have written a program that releases the information on a certain date. Or someone else has a backup and knows what to do with it. Either that or he's no longer in Hong Kong, sort of like what McAfee did, tell everyone where he's at when he's really no longer…

I find it hard to believe that he can be anywhere so easily. The NSA isn't omniscient, but certainly it keeps close tabs on people that work with/for them?

I would suggest that tracking former employees or contractors that had security clearance and did not misbehave while working for the NSA would be a pretty low priority to keep track of - and fairly numerous. Particularly since any information they did have that was sensitive would generally lose value over time. I would expect that most of the NSA's resources directed at specific individuals are directed at individuals that they have reason to believe are up to no good, not just tracking low-risk folks for the sake of tracking them.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#45

Post by tokenadult » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:27 PM UTC

Have we seen a news report yet about how Snowden traveled to Hong Kong? His choice of destination may have been dictated by where he could fly on a nonstop airline flight from Hawaii, where he was last based. His travel documents, because he was contracting for the NSA, may already have had restrictions on which destinations he could fly to. (Such restrictions have been routine for NSA employees for more than a generation. Airlines check travel documents before you board a plane on an international flight, because the airline is responsible for returning you at no charge to you if you are denied entry for lack of proper travel documents at the border of your destination.) He may simply have had no better choice when he had opportunity to leave work and leave home.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#46

Post by JamisonM » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:27 PM UTC

I am baffled too, given that Ecuador offered Assange asylum wouldn't that be the most logical choice? I quick "vacation" down to Costa Rica and overland to Ecuador if you want to avoid raising suspicions and travel restrictions.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#47

Post by cpleppert » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:33 PM UTC

JamisonM wrote: post #44

jckt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that he can be anywhere so easily. The NSA isn't omniscient, but certainly it keeps close tabs on people that work with/for them?

I would suggest that tracking former employees or contractors that had security clearance and did not misbehave while working for the NSA would be a pretty low priority to keep track of - and fairly numerous. Particularly since any information they did have that was sensitive would generally lose value over time. I would expect that most of the NSA's resources directed at specific individuals are directed at individu…

He wasn't an NSA employee he was a contractor. They don't even know how many contrators they have working for them.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#48

Post by fab13n » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

liotier wrote: post #8

Spearchucker wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he was spying, then why Hong Kong, and why not Beijing directly?

Protection, balanced with plausible deniability.

Once you're protected, there's no more need for denying.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#49

Post by JPKab » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 2:43 PM UTC

trotsky wrote: post #38

kghose wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the real story is possibly how the government over pays contractors. The other real story is not that the government does this, it is that the government did not tell us it did this. THAT makes it underhand. If the government came out and said, look we are storing who calls whom and asking telecos to store that information and, with judicial oversight, we will access that information, and we had a debate about…

There is so much demand in maryland for IT that has a clearance that it bids up the price of anyone reasonably competetant.

He lives in Hawaii....

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#50

Post by rayiner » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 3:02 PM UTC

> According to an interview with The Guardian, 29-year-old Edward Snowden, whose revelations have created a political uproar, has stashed himself in an unidentified luxury hotel in Hong Kong, a city he said he chose as the best place to hunker down given its “spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent.”

You mean the place that has no political freedom to speak of and exists under the PRC's thumb?