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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#111

Post by gadders »

gizzlon wrote: post #17
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

I live in Scandinavia and I don't think most people here see the US in the same light as China and Russia. But, OTOTH, I do think most people see Europe as more open than the US. It's not like it's a unique and magical "land of the free" like some people seem to believe.

Any country that requires identity cards (such as France) has already lost its claim to be more free.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#112

Post by randomsearch »

mdesq wrote: post #106
randomsearch wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. But, how does owning a gun provide protection against the US military?

I think the folks in the Middle East have pretty much demonstrated how this works.

Gun ownership amongst individuals did not lead to the Arab Spring.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#113

Post by tekmate »

onebaddude wrote: post #60
tekmate wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's more about the perception than actual levels of freedom, the US is a country that tortures, detains people from all over the world indefinitely without trial in an offshore location, bails out bankers while promoting austerity for everyone else, spies on people worldwide, starts wars all over the world, uses remotely controlled killing machines and most of that isn't even new, the veil of the american dream has…

> "bails out bankers while promoting austerity for everyone else" How does that work exactly? Do banks operate in a vacuum in the economy? It's my understanding that social program spending (and hence the deficit) over the recession was at all time highs. "Main Street" got its share of the bail out, as it should have.

like i wrote. it's not about what's really happening in details, but overall perception

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#114

Post by jebblue »

mtgx wrote: post #32
newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

So is the 4th amendment, and look how much that one is abused. In the end the Constitution really is "just a piece of paper", if not the government , not the judges , not the media , and ultimately not even the people respect it, live by it, and try to protect it as soon as it's endangered by people trying to accumulate too much power. Where are all the street protests?! I also fail to understand people who so viciou…

>> I also fail to understand people who so viciously defend the 2nd amendment

The definition of "viciously" at: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/viciously

"Having the nature of vice; evil, immoral, or depraved."

What was vicious about newbie12's comment which was a direct quote from an American President?

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/when-government-fea...

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#116

Post by gadders »

zmb_ wrote: post #56
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

As a European I wouldn't say I see the USA in the same light as China and Russia, but I definitely feel uncomfortable when I have to travel to the US for work. Given the US's recent track record with human rights and the ongoing mass surveillance, I just can't be sure some innocent comment on some website I've made at some point won't flag me and cause me to be indefinitely detained. I know it's probably not likely,…

As a contrary anecdote, I've travelled to the US many times for business and pleasure. I've never had any feeling I was under surveillance, about to be detained tec.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#117

Post by xtracto »

zmb_ wrote: post #56
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

As a European I wouldn't say I see the USA in the same light as China and Russia, but I definitely feel uncomfortable when I have to travel to the US for work. Given the US's recent track record with human rights and the ongoing mass surveillance, I just can't be sure some innocent comment on some website I've made at some point won't flag me and cause me to be indefinitely detained. I know it's probably not likely,…

Did you have to take a photograph and save your 10 fingerprints and disclose all your personal and economic information to get into the USA?

I had to... because it seems for the USA, any Mexican that dares to enter the country is a potential criminal, so there I am in the huge Mexa database. Just because I needed to spend a week in the USA for work.

Whereas the 7 years I lived in Europe (UK and Germany) I did not feel as "guilty". Even with Germany's Rathaus compulsory city registrations.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#118

Post by kyrra »

stevoski wrote: post #95
powertower wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you posted are a few negative events. What you did not post are the few million or billion positive events that happened at the same time. What you're reading/seeing is an ever increasingly opinionated and vocal crowd that think they possess the truth and are right about everything. They want a perfect system. And a simple system. And worst of all, they don't know what they don't know (how utterly destructive th…

> "that think they possess the truth and are right about everything" All those things I listed are well-documented. For the sake of keeping my post short I didn't post links to the appropriate Wikipedia articles nor to mainstream US online newspapers that reported the events.

powertower did not imply that anything you originally listed as incorrect, but saying that you are looking at a very small part of what the US does.

I'm pretty sure we could look at any person or government, find all their past flaws/mistakes and only list this to show that the person is 'evil'. But without looking at the bigger picture of everything they do, you aren't being fair with your judgement of that person/country.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#119

Post by dspillett »

cema wrote: post #103
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms I think I understand where it is coming from. Perception is there, and perception is important. There is however a big difference between China and Russia on one hand and USA on the other: the openness of the US society is, among other things, manifested in noticing and magnifying dirty spots. Other countries with Western European cultural…

> There is however a big difference between China and Russia on one hand and USA on the other: the openness of the US society is, among other things, manifested in noticing and magnifying dirty spots.

True, but that just means that the people are more (but far from completely) able to be aware of what is being done to them and more free to talk about it. It doesn't change the spirit behind the government agency's actions, and even then "able to be more aware" covers a lot of ground as things like the recent revelations are only heresay (and ignored by most) until good evidence somehow becomes public knowledge.

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