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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#61

Post by onebaddude »

taktix wrote: post #53
Fuxy wrote: post #27

I doubt there is a country on this planet the US government can't strike a deal with to get his ass back and into prison. However we all have to be grateful for what he did regardless I sure it wasn't an easy decision to make. Good luck Edward and don't make any mistakes.

Yes, it's becoming a one government world. A New World Order.

I'll never understand the opposition to a single, global, government entity. It seems like the most logical plan.

Otherwise, you get multiple countries playing the zero-sum game of gaining at the expense of other countries. Exactly what we have now. You know, like exploiting the resources of poor countries so we can have cheap gasoline. Good system?

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#62

Post by gtaylor »

[deleted] wrote: post #14

[deleted]

I think leaking some of this stuff is one of the most patriotic things you can do, given the subject matter and the government overreach it was meant to expose.

In fact, I wish this happened more often. The population as a whole shows a lot of apathy until something like this happens to stir the coals. Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot more than just this to bring about major change.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#63

Post by pekk »

mtgx wrote: post #32
newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

So is the 4th amendment, and look how much that one is abused. In the end the Constitution really is "just a piece of paper", if not the government , not the judges , not the media , and ultimately not even the people respect it, live by it, and try to protect it as soon as it's endangered by people trying to accumulate too much power. Where are all the street protests?! I also fail to understand people who so viciou…

Threatening to take up arms is a way to pressure for political concessions as an end-run around representative democracy, when you aren't getting what you want (for example, when the populace elects the 'wrong' President).

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#65

Post by rayiner »

mtgx wrote: post #32
newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

So is the 4th amendment, and look how much that one is abused. In the end the Constitution really is "just a piece of paper", if not the government , not the judges , not the media , and ultimately not even the people respect it, live by it, and try to protect it as soon as it's endangered by people trying to accumulate too much power. Where are all the street protests?! I also fail to understand people who so viciou…

The 4th amendment is strong as it has ever been, and the 1st is much stronger.[1] Are police knocking down your door without a warrant? If not that's the 4th amendment working as intended.

What we have here is a system:

1) Clearly designed to pass a 4th amendment analysis;

2) Enabled to to pass such scrutiny be the unprecedented access Americans give corporations to the details of their private lives.

For what its worth I think the NSA programs are bad ideas, in an administration that has had a lot of them.[2] But not every bad idea is unconstitutional, that is to say not every bad idea can be fixed in court rather than in Congress.

[1] In light of this story, who is still mad at the Supreme Court for holding that Congress couldn't shut down the speech of corporations (like the ACLU?)

[2] Menacing over the Supreme Court justices during the state of the union probably being the worst.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#67

Post by pekk »

lemming wrote: post #34
newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. It's pretty clear from the last couple of days that the balance in the US is pretty firmly tipped towards tyranny by that definition. Certainly I doubt anyone in the government is at all worried about the people being able to do anything about this scandal. There have been several comments on here and elsewhere…

That's not a definition of tyranny, it's a hypothesis about tyranny. But it's foolish. Pointing a shotgun at random government workers like the census taker or sending ricin to the President are not doing anything to improve our politics.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#69

Post by anon1385 »

rayiner wrote: post #65
mtgx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is the 4th amendment, and look how much that one is abused. In the end the Constitution really is "just a piece of paper", if not the government , not the judges , not the media , and ultimately not even the people respect it, live by it, and try to protect it as soon as it's endangered by people trying to accumulate too much power. Where are all the street protests?! I also fail to understand people who so viciou…

The 4th amendment is strong as it has ever been, and the 1st is much stronger.[1] Are police knocking down your door without a warrant? If not that's the 4th amendment working as intended. What we have here is a system: 1) Clearly designed to pass a 4th amendment analysis; 2) Enabled to to pass such scrutiny be the unprecedented access Americans give corporations to the details of their private lives. For what its wo…

>The 4th amendment is strong as it has ever been […] Are police knocking down your door without a warrant?

Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_v._King

Justice Ginsburg , dissenting.

The Court today arms the police with a way routinely to dishonor the Fourth Amendment ’s warrant requirement in drug cases. In lieu of presenting their evidence to a neutral magistrate, police officers may now knock, listen, then break the door down, nevermind that they had ample time to obtain a warrant. I dissent from the Court’s reduction of the Fourth Amendment ’s force.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/09-1272.ZD.html

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#70

Post by xradionut »

stevoski wrote: post #38
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

I agree, as a New Zealander living in Spain. I've been staggered over the last decade or so to hear of the USA performing: * "extraordinary renditions" (kidnapping), sometimes of the wrong person who after months gets dumped in Albania. * "enhanced interrogation techniques" such as waterboarding (torture) * holding people indefinitely without charge or trial in Guantanamo Bay * killing people remotely in foreign coun…

Most of the US populous has jobs, beer and entertainment. Plus they might with the lottery some day and join the 1%.
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