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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#51

Post by hudibras »

venomsnake wrote: post #23
[deleted] wrote: post #14

[deleted]

There is this obscure document known as the us constitution that defines treason as Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. He is definitely not waging war on the US and is not adhering to any enemy, nor giving them aid and comfort. Or he is aiding enemy so secret that the government even cannot tell you who it is…

Also:

No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#52

Post by fpgeek »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #46
mtgx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is the 4th amendment, and look how much that one is abused. In the end the Constitution really is "just a piece of paper", if not the government , not the judges , not the media , and ultimately not even the people respect it, live by it, and try to protect it as soon as it's endangered by people trying to accumulate too much power. Where are all the street protests?! I also fail to understand people who so viciou…

I don't disagree with you on the importance of the 1st and 4th amendments. I think the ACLU and EFF will indeed become stronger. I don't know of any 2nd amendment supporters who are also not strong 1st and 4th supporters, the issue comes down to how their voice is heard. Also I don't know any of them who who wouldn't rather change things peacefully, it is a much better solution.

> I don't know of any 2nd amendment supporters who are also not strong 1st and 4th supporters

Are you sure? For instance, on cultural grounds, I'd guess that there are plenty of 2nd amendment supporters who would be happy to ban flag-burning...

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#53

Post by taktix »

Fuxy wrote: post #27

I doubt there is a country on this planet the US government can't strike a deal with to get his ass back and into prison. However we all have to be grateful for what he did regardless I sure it wasn't an easy decision to make. Good luck Edward and don't make any mistakes.

Yes, it's becoming a one government world. A New World Order.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#54

Post by [deleted] »

mtgx wrote: post #32
newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

So is the 4th amendment, and look how much that one is abused. In the end the Constitution really is "just a piece of paper", if not the government , not the judges , not the media , and ultimately not even the people respect it, live by it, and try to protect it as soon as it's endangered by people trying to accumulate too much power. Where are all the street protests?! I also fail to understand people who so viciou…

[deleted]

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#55

Post by epsylon »

rayiner wrote: post #36
belorn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Are U.S. citizens routinely arrested and placed in re-education by labor camps for a year without a trial?" No, people are just sent to Gitmo to be waterboarded and held indefinite without a trial. They don't even care the nationality of where you come from.

This is not true. Even US citizens capptured in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban were transferred out of gitmo.

But non-US citizens can liberally have their basic human rights denied. 12 years after 9/11. That's the land of the free for you.

(Looking at how Bradley Manning was treated even shows that US citizens aren't treated much better. Being denied a lawyer and confined to solitary cells for months is not much different from torture.)

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#56

Post by zmb_ »

josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

As a European I wouldn't say I see the USA in the same light as China and Russia, but I definitely feel uncomfortable when I have to travel to the US for work. Given the US's recent track record with human rights and the ongoing mass surveillance, I just can't be sure some innocent comment on some website I've made at some point won't flag me and cause me to be indefinitely detained. I know it's probably not likely, but the possibility is real enough that it makes me uncomfortable. I'd rather work in countries where I know I have rights that will be strongly upheld.

When I traveled to the US first time with a new passport (Chicago, year 200X) I was taken to a police station at the airport and made to answer various questions (I'm a whiter than white male from Northern Europe). The answers were entered into what I assume is some monster database, and I was never explained why this was done or what would be done with the data. It certainly didn't make me feel like I was entering the "land of the free", rather I felt like I was entering a police state.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#57

Post by shirro »

josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

I don't think the USA is comparable to the worst offenders unless you are looking at a list of bullet points instead of the big picture. But it is hard not to feel the USA is heading down the wrong path. As allies we are compelled by our national interests to follow down the same rabbit hole to some extent and to me it feels our country is morally compromised pushing for data retention laws comparable to Prism when we have no demonstrated domestic need for such things. However Aussies, Swedes, New Zealanders, many small countries rely heavily on the US for our security and there really isn't much option but to tough it out and hope the US turns it around from within.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#58

Post by youngerdryas »

twoodfin wrote: post #15
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

I can't even begin to comprehend how bad your sources of information are if you think the levels of freedom in the U.S. and China are more closely comparable than those of the U.S. and Australia.

If he is sitting in Australia in fear of the US I think he needs more help than a few words will offer.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#59

Post by asynchronous13 »

rayiner wrote: post #36
belorn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Are U.S. citizens routinely arrested and placed in re-education by labor camps for a year without a trial?" No, people are just sent to Gitmo to be waterboarded and held indefinite without a trial. They don't even care the nationality of where you come from.

This is not true. Even US citizens capptured in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban were transferred out of gitmo.

Except for Yasser Hamdi, it took them a few months before they realized he was a u.s. citizen.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#60

Post by onebaddude »

tekmate wrote: post #26
twoodfin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't even begin to comprehend how bad your sources of information are if you think the levels of freedom in the U.S. and China are more closely comparable than those of the U.S. and Australia.

it's more about the perception than actual levels of freedom, the US is a country that tortures, detains people from all over the world indefinitely without trial in an offshore location, bails out bankers while promoting austerity for everyone else, spies on people worldwide, starts wars all over the world, uses remotely controlled killing machines and most of that isn't even new, the veil of the american dream has…

>"bails out bankers while promoting austerity for everyone else"

How does that work exactly? Do banks operate in a vacuum in the economy?

It's my understanding that social program spending (and hence the deficit) over the recession was at all time highs. "Main Street" got its share of the bail out, as it should have.

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