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Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

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Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#71

Post by kintamanimatt »

microb wrote: post #10
whatevenisthis wrote: post #5

This whole thing is so bizarre to me. The NSA has been doing this sort of thing since at least the early 90s. Who knows, probably earlier. What exactly did people think the NSA was doing? The only difference is that, before digital cell service, it was more difficult to monitor phones conversations because the infrastructure simply didn't support it. Everyone's all riled up over a few PowerPoint slides (which may ver…

What I'm about to say is absolutely nuts, but it could be that this is something the NSA leaked intentionally and the media is running with it for reasons we are not aware of. Despite twitter and the like, the mainstream media is still largely in control of what occupies the "news" and therefore what the otherwise apathetic public is concerned about.

It's reaching considerably, but the only two reasons that could be true is if the truth is considerably worse (or will be) and the NSA is getting the world used to the idea of pervasive surveillance inch-by-inch (unlikely), or it's not as bad as it's being made out to be and they're framing reality in terms of a more dire alternative. An example of the latter would be that infamous daughter's letter home to parents. [1]

The reality is probably that the unauthorized leak is just that, an unauthorized leak and a lot of people internally are pissed as hell.

The surveillance apparatus in the US and other places is probably more developed than we know about and probably getting more sophisticated.

[1] http://www.snopes.com/college/pranks/letter.asp

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#72

Post by indeyets »

ianstormtaylor wrote: post #55
eightyone wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was a site to connect open-source projects who need better UIs with the designers over at Dribbble. On Dribbble you see a lot of UI concepts that never come to fruition. What if we could convince some of them to help build a better PGP UI? After all, real world applications look much better on a resume than concepts.

As a designer, throughout this entire scandal I've been wishing for the same thing. I assume there are projects out there that I can contribute design thinking to, but I honestly don't know which ones need it or would welcome it.

Give this one a try: https://gpgtools.org/

It is a tool-set which integrates GNUPG into OS X

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#73

Post by Spearchucker »

raverbashing wrote: post #57

"Why would you use AES/RSA/etc. when the NSA employs more mathematicians than anyone else and may well have cracked them?" Well, because of everybody else seems to be a good reason. And one thing a bunch of good mathematicians is not better than is math. And as far as we know, they may still be good systems. The construct of encryption systems today is so complex I think the last part they would address would be the…

Assuming for a minute, hypothetically, that the NSA can crack AES and RSA, then the way to combat that is for more people to use it more often, and to create meaningless encrypted spam.

Cracking requires huge computing resources. If there's an overwhelming amount of data to crack, with little guarantee of any useful yield, then we can reasonably expect it that negates the ability to crack it.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#74

Post by jebeng »

fargolime wrote: post #22
b6 wrote: post #17

I'm a peaceful person, but this issue has been simmering in my head for years, and I find myself actually looking forward to some kind of meaningful conflict. I'm sick, sick, sick to death of the president issuing denials while they keep building more and more infrastructure against humanity. I think the article is right, that it'll get worse from here, and in a way, I'm glad.

"Looking forward to conflict" comment auto-logged, reference #391Z328. Report to the proper authorities within 24 hours for interrogation. You've been auto-added to the no-fly list. That's likely what will happen from here, because only a small percentage of American voters care about this issue.

It's people have made these jokes online for as long as I can remember.

It's sad that it's even remotely possible now that this might become a reality. And you wouldn't even know it.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#75

Post by icebraining »

taktix wrote: post #48
bayesianhorse wrote: post #23

For me, this incident is an example where the U.S. democracy failed, pure and simple. Obama made campaign promises to not do surveillance. He was elected and then did it anyway. It's frankly impossible now to change this issue in a democratic fashion. From the outside it often looks as if American politicians are overly busy with a very expensive "game", rather than using the game for the greater good.

It's because the American people voted for looks over substance. Obama has no morals and no spine, but he looks and sounds like a Hollywood star. Obama is just the US population's reflection in the mirror.

Yes, they should have voted for substance, for McCain, instead, who just yesterday called this process "appropriate".

And of course, the two parties chose to approve and re-approve the PATRIOT act.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#76

Post by justincormack »

indeyets wrote: post #72
ianstormtaylor wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a designer, throughout this entire scandal I've been wishing for the same thing. I assume there are projects out there that I can contribute design thinking to, but I honestly don't know which ones need it or would welcome it.

Give this one a try: https://gpgtools.org/ It is a tool-set which integrates GNUPG into OS X

Given Apple signed up to PRISM what's the point? Do you trust OSX?

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#77

Post by waps »

raverbashing wrote: post #57

"Why would you use AES/RSA/etc. when the NSA employs more mathematicians than anyone else and may well have cracked them?" Well, because of everybody else seems to be a good reason. And one thing a bunch of good mathematicians is not better than is math. And as far as we know, they may still be good systems. The construct of encryption systems today is so complex I think the last part they would address would be the…

Keep in mind that it is a verified fact [1] that the NSA knew about differential cryptanalysis in 1976, when they reinforced DES against it (it turns out that they did not build in a weakness, rather the reverse). That technique was discovered in 1990 ... it seems lots of mathematicians does help.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Encryption_Standard#NSA.27...

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#78

Post by paganel »

whatevenisthis wrote: post #5

This whole thing is so bizarre to me. The NSA has been doing this sort of thing since at least the early 90s. Who knows, probably earlier. What exactly did people think the NSA was doing? The only difference is that, before digital cell service, it was more difficult to monitor phones conversations because the infrastructure simply didn't support it. Everyone's all riled up over a few PowerPoint slides (which may ver…

> You send data in plaintext and are surprised that the NSA might be reading/logging it?

I live in Europe, it's true, but even so I would expect my Government not to enter my house without a proper warrant, even though I've only locked the door once when I left for office this morning. And when I'm mentioning "proper warrant" I'm thinking about Stalin's "Great Purge", which did use the Soviet legal system of the time that I find no worse than today's "secret courts". A parody of justice is not justice.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#79

Post by lsc »

whatevenisthis wrote: post #5

This whole thing is so bizarre to me. The NSA has been doing this sort of thing since at least the early 90s. Who knows, probably earlier. What exactly did people think the NSA was doing? The only difference is that, before digital cell service, it was more difficult to monitor phones conversations because the infrastructure simply didn't support it. Everyone's all riled up over a few PowerPoint slides (which may ver…

>Why do people seem to suddenly care? You can't say it's because, "We have more information," because we really don't. People suddenly care about privacy?

Now, I don't have my finger on the pulse of the everyman... not by a longshot. But within my own echo chamber? all those things were pretty big deals. As you said, nobody else cared, yeah. But they were a big deal to the news I read.

My question to you, is "Does anyone care about this?" I mean, I know I care, and I know my own echo chamber is all shook up, but if my "media bubble" mattered? we'd have been on IPv6 a decade ago.

So yeah. what does Fox news have to say about this? Hm. Looking, it's got something about how Ron Paul is worked up, but the other bits there seem to be about how much jailtime the whistleblower is getting. There's a neutral to positive article about what the NSA does.

Go to npr.org, for the mainstream left, and there's an opinion piece calling Obama "big brother" - so I guess that's something?

We'll see how long the stories last. But yeah... I think you are mistaking your own media bubble for the world as a whole. My guess? The average Facebook user is going to shrug and keep using facebook.

Hell, this is going to be a big deal for me (as most of my customers also live in the same media bubble or echo chamber or whatever you want to call it as I do.) - I don't have any real response, either. (I've been talking about setting up customer portals where you can see all log data I have about you... but that's hard to do well enough that I can honestly say "This is ALL the data I have about you," and it's not like I don't have a whole bunch of other work to do, and really? as a VPS provider, well, most of what I log is access to your serial console and the like. Really, everything the NSA would want would be within your VPS. Well, that and the ip -> billing data mapping, but I think you know I'm keeping that.)

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#80

Post by bigiain »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #23

For me, this incident is an example where the U.S. democracy failed, pure and simple. Obama made campaign promises to not do surveillance. He was elected and then did it anyway. It's frankly impossible now to change this issue in a democratic fashion. From the outside it often looks as if American politicians are overly busy with a very expensive "game", rather than using the game for the greater good.

We (here in .au) had a 4 term Prime Minister defend reneging on election promises by claiming they were "non-core promises" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Government )

The scary thing? That was his _first_ term, and "we" voted him in three more times...

"Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill

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