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Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

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Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#71

Post by known_unknowns »

wl wrote: post #14
otsuichi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A SCOTUS decision IS binding to Congress. They can't pass a law doing something that has been deemed unconstitutional unless they first amend the Constitution to explicitly allow them to do that same thing, which is obviously not going to happen.

Actually, Congress can pass any law they damn well please. It's not until the courts deal with it that an unconstitutional law (in the opinion of a court interpreting law and precedent) can be thrown out. My original post was operating under the assumption that all branches would abide by the legitimate actions of the other branches. Grandparent is pointing out that sometimes this doesn't happen. Always a possibility…

Technically, Congress can pass any bill they damn well please, but it's not a law if it contradicts the Constitution.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#72

Post by snogglethorpe »

mason55 wrote: post #37
bpatrianakos wrote: post #13

What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage. Totally understandable. But then there are the senators..…

> The American people have basically known about this since about 2006 2006? Try 1997 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON_system

... and anybody with any sense could guess they've been doing this for far longer. The NSA doesn't go around shouting it from the rooftops, but they've never tried particularly hard to hide that they're doing this sort of thing.

Note the copyright date on this file from the Emacs distribution:

http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/play/sp...

The most surprising thing about the current episode is simply that everybody's acting so shocked. Seriously people?

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#73

Post by tmzt »

newbie12 wrote: post #38
mitchi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rand Paul may have its faults. Many people like libertarianism but they don't like the pro-religion/prolife and pro-rich aspects that come with it. That's why Bill Maher has distanced himself recently from the libertarian appelation. However to say that it's not sincere coming from Rand Paul is not fair at all. If you know a little bit about who he is, who his father is, you couldn't say that... Of course Rand Paul i…

Your speculation about the GOP primaries is mis-informed. In 2010, Rand was an insurgent "tea party" republican, as was Rubio -- both men were officially opposed by the party in their primaries and defeated the "generic" GOP candidate. In both the GOP and Democrat parties, generic candidates often struggle in primaries if there is a non-crazy candidate who can appeal to the base. Rand has a safe path back to the GOP…

My reading of it is he was referring to the 2016 Presidential primary contest for the Republican Party, not to the Republican primary for the Senate race in Kentucky.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#74

Post by jmadsen »

The interesting side story behind all of this, that HN isn't looking at at all, is the "bi-partisanship as usual" reaction from outside Washington.

A reason something might come of this? Ironically, it is because the Rush Limbaugh crowd look at it as a way to get Obama, et al, while liberals are equally aghast. Never mind that it was all spearheaded by a Republican administration.

Now, as for me, I vote Green & don't like any of 'em - but it's nice to see everyone looking like they might agree on something for once.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#76

Post by diminoten »

alipang wrote: post #75
diminoten wrote: post #9

Yeah this should happen, but no Rand Paul shouldn't be in front of it.

Why not? Like him or not, this is definitely in line with the libertarian position.

Because he'll make concessions and strategy choices which are not in line with what I want.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#77

Post by saraid216 »

krapp wrote: post #49
saraid216 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. That's one of the most absurd things about America: we force our public officials to lie, and then complain about it when they do.

In what other field do people apply for work by claiming to be not only ignorant of, but hostile to the job they're applying for? Everyone is Mister Smith going to Washington now, it's manufactured cynicism, and Americans seem to eat it up.

I remember, to my shame, voting Schwarznegger into office precisely on this premise. I've grown up since, fortunately. I'm sad that no one called me on it when I explained my reasoning to people back then.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#78

Post by rdl »

mitchi wrote: post #27
bpatrianakos wrote: post #13

What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage. Totally understandable. But then there are the senators..…

Rand Paul may have its faults. Many people like libertarianism but they don't like the pro-religion/prolife and pro-rich aspects that come with it. That's why Bill Maher has distanced himself recently from the libertarian appelation. However to say that it's not sincere coming from Rand Paul is not fair at all. If you know a little bit about who he is, who his father is, you couldn't say that... Of course Rand Paul i…

Libertarianism in general isn't particularly pro-religion or anti-abortion. (except in that it supports general 1A, but a lot of atheists are libertarians). I think the Paul family's anti-abortion stance is their own (and, it was always kind of understandable for Ron Paul, as an Ob/Gyn, to have a strong opinion one way or the other on the issue)

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#79

Post by d4vlx »

sageikosa wrote: post #64
d4vlx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From his Benghazi hearing testimony "I'm glad that you're accepting responsibility. I think ultimately with your leaving that you accept the culpability for the worst tragedy since 9/11. And I really mean that. Had I been president and found you did not read the cables from Benghazi and from Ambassador Stevens, I would have relieved you of your post. I think it's inexcusable." - his obsession with drastically cutting…

Your use of these as evidence of Paul's irrationality does not seem rational. Instead, they appear as a complaint that he doesn't share the same values as you; and by extension he must be irrational since your values obviously must be rationally chosen.

Actually no, except for my point on social views. A couple assumptions I made are:

1) He wants the American economy to improve

2) He wants to do what it best for Americans as a whole

They seem like reasonable assumptions, correct me if you seem any hole in them please.

I do not think he his actions and these assumed goals are linked in a rational way.

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