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Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

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Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#2
This may seem a bit off topic, but I do agree that we can't go back. So, I'm asking here.

We are building out a software development framework "from scratch" and would like to make security a core aspect of the framework.

Where would be a good place to start looking at encryption solutions? For example, would PGP be a good option?

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#3

This may seem a bit off topic, but I do agree that we can't go back. So, I'm asking here. We are building out a software development framework "from scratch" and would like to make security a core aspect of the framework. Where would be a good place to start looking at encryption solutions? For example, would PGP be a good option?

Assuming you trust it (e.g. Google), Keyczar[1] is a good starting point. If you don't trust it and you can deal with the GPL, GPG[2] is probably a reasonable way to go, but key management is still a bitch.

Of course, these are very high level answers, and neither may actually work for you project, since you don't really talk about what making "security a core aspect" actually means.

Cryptography is insanely hard to get right. The more you can leave up to the peer-reviewed experts, the better.

1. http://www.keyczar.org/

2. http://www.gnupg.org/

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#5
This whole thing is so bizarre to me. The NSA has been doing this sort of thing since at least the early 90s. Who knows, probably earlier. What exactly did people think the NSA was doing? The only difference is that, before digital cell service, it was more difficult to monitor phones conversations because the infrastructure simply didn't support it.

Everyone's all riled up over a few PowerPoint slides (which may ver well be fake). I don't get. No mainstream company or consumer has ever given two shits about encryption. You send data in plaintext and are surprised that the NSA might be reading/logging it?

The public overwhelmingly supported the PATRIOT Act back when it was passed. Black box rooms in telecom facilities were exposed what, 10 years ago? No one gave a shit.

Why do people seem to suddenly care? You can't say it's because, "We have more information," because we really don't. People suddenly care about privacy?

I do not understand what those who are outraged thought the NSA did. Honestly, how can you be so ignorant?

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#6

This whole thing is so bizarre to me. The NSA has been doing this sort of thing since at least the early 90s. Who knows, probably earlier. What exactly did people think the NSA was doing? The only difference is that, before digital cell service, it was more difficult to monitor phones conversations because the infrastructure simply didn't support it. Everyone's all riled up over a few PowerPoint slides (which may ver…

[deleted]

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#7

This may seem a bit off topic, but I do agree that we can't go back. So, I'm asking here. We are building out a software development framework "from scratch" and would like to make security a core aspect of the framework. Where would be a good place to start looking at encryption solutions? For example, would PGP be a good option?

Here's my view. I recently wrote an article on my blog (http://ledgersmbdev.blogspot.com/2013/06/tangent-design-thou...) which was on the front page of HN for a while. I want to summarize both my thoughts again and things that have occurred to me after writing it.

All of our existing key interchange systems are amazingly brittle. With X509, there's no reason to assume the NSA couldn't order verisign to produce a certificate for any given individual or site which they could then use to orchestrate a MITM attack. Purely synchronic protections (i.e. focused exclusively at the moment of exchange) are obsolete in my view. Similarly purely diachronic protections have problems too, and often aren't well implemented. Suppose you need to rotate ssh host keys. This becomes a problem. I think we need something a lot better.

Regarding PGP, the question is what they can break. Could they get a court order to force MIT to help them present that your key on their directory is visible to you but their key is visible to everyone else (allowing them to step in between and conduct another MITM attack of another variety?

Even if you add endorsements (web of trust model), how easily can that be attacked? It might be harder but not that much harder.

So my thinking is this. Start with a standard PKI model and extend it to require evidence of continuity. The assumptions required to do this are:

1. No external authority issues private keys, and

2. You must retain and continue to use an old private key for an unspecified transition period (possibly spanning several keys). This shows a chain of issuance, and evidence that the same entity controls the same internally issued private keys over time.

So suppose you define a transition period of 2 years and a key rotation period of one year. This means that anyone you have been in communication with over the last three years will be able to check that the continuity of key possession has not changed, and three keys would have to be compromised to force a certificate believably (two of those keys can be stored somewhere else and only used for the certificate resigning process) If a MITM attack starts, anyone who has been in contact in that period knows instantly that something is wrong. Newcomers get alerted when the MITM attack stops.

I would recommend looking into what we can do to implement a system like that. I am thinking of trying to write it up as an RFC and submit it to the various bodies.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#10

This whole thing is so bizarre to me. The NSA has been doing this sort of thing since at least the early 90s. Who knows, probably earlier. What exactly did people think the NSA was doing? The only difference is that, before digital cell service, it was more difficult to monitor phones conversations because the infrastructure simply didn't support it. Everyone's all riled up over a few PowerPoint slides (which may ver…

What I'm about to say is absolutely nuts, but it could be that this is something the NSA leaked intentionally and the media is running with it for reasons we are not aware of. Despite twitter and the like, the mainstream media is still largely in control of what occupies the "news" and therefore what the otherwise apathetic public is concerned about.
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