No, this sort of thing has been going on long before Obama. If anything he will just be the one that got unlucky enough to be in charge when people found out some of the details.
Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
71–80 of 291 posts
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it will change things; I'm an American. Having your customers trust is important for business---now data stored offshore has just become a feature.
I'm an American, and I think things will change - for the worse. I'd like to think that if morality or the Constitution didn't stop this shit, at least bidness would. But I think what will really happen is that the administration, and the bureaucrats, and the security "services" in general will double down, be much more secretive about what they do, be much better at what they do (grants coming soon to a computer sci…
Your last line is a really interesting one. Most governments probably are to some extent self aware, insofar as there's an executive branch. But I think the self awareness you are referring to is a kind of secretive adaption of sorts, where the response is not aligned necessary with the public interest, but with the interest of those in power (to stay in power).
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#73It's odd, I hear people saying, "no big deal, nothing will change." But then I wonder, if you're saying it's no big deal, are you an American or not? The point of this pst is that foreign business will be affected, AFAICT, Europeans have always held the Internet to a stricter standard than Americans and have passed stricter laws around everything from what data can be retained to the behaviour of tracking cookies. If…
Europeans tend to have higher standards for protecting the privacy of the personal data of their citizens from access and use by private corporations.
But what the U.S. NSA is doing is sifting data for connections to foreigners who are suspected of being terrorists. I would be shocked if Euro intelligence agencies are not doing the same thing.
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#74This is a huge deal. I live in Australia and I have been running businesses on the cloud for the last 3 years or so. I have rarely heard the issue of the PATRIOT Act raised and in spite of there being laws banning the transfer of personal data outside Australia, most people are quite lax about the issue and take the view that the risks are too small to be counted. Those days are most certainly over. This stuff will a…
I'm, also in Australia. NB: It's a real struggle to not make this sound paranoid. Just at an individual level, I'm questioning whether it's wise to store my data in a US service that won't afford me the same protection as US citizens. I've already started reducing my reliance on Google, and I barely use facebook, but things like Amazon and Linode are much harder for me to quickly divorce myself from.
> I'm questioning whether it's wise to store my data in a US service
It definitely isn't, and I'm wondering why this issue wasn't on top of your mind before that?
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#75One biggie that the author left out of the piece: The US Gov continues to insist that they are not monitoring the data of US citizens because that would be unconstitutional without warrants. But that's a tacit admission that they are openly monitoring the data of non-US citizens. I think this is one of the most important revelations of this leak, the US Gov has made it clear that if you are a non US citizen using a w…
As an Australian, that's what I found most interesting as well about all the commentary going on. From the perspective of the NSA it seems my data is fair game under any and all circumstances. Well fuck that. Google, Amazon, et al. - I'm out
Good luck. I don't see other countries innovating at even half the rate of the U.S. with tech stuff. Leaving the umbrella will be like turning out the lights. It gets boring and cold in the dark after a while.
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Australia isn't exactly a safe haven. There are only a handful of pipes in and out of the country, each of them probably well within the deep packet inspection capability of serious spy gear. I'd be amazed if one of the AFP, ACC, ASIS, ASIO or DSD didn't have their own rooms in selected Telstra and Optus facilities. And not to mention that Conroy wants to do something like what the NSA are supposedly doing; he's just…
But as an Australian citizen we have our courts and public opinion to try and fight for us. Not to mention the people doing the snooping have far less incentive to pass commercial information along to a competitor.
I'm not sure I follow you.
Americans are, theoretically, in a much stronger position vs NSA snooping. US law is meant to make it illegal for their spy agencies to look inwards and the US Constitution has its famous "search and seizure" clause which can, if you find the right judge, have some formidable teeth.
As Australian citizens we have no such protections and we have no standing in US courts to get any restitution. We're fair game.
Further, as Australians, while we enjoy some protection from our own outward-looking agency (ASIS), the inward-looking agency (ASIO) can and does investigate Australian citizens with a broad range of powers, including powers to intercept telecommunications. Their powers compound of investigation with the Australian Federal Police's powers of arrest, sometimes without cause or notice.
In theory, ASIO requires the Attorney-General to grant warrants to exercise most of its powers. Statistics on the warrants haven't been published, so we have no idea if they're granted begrudgingly or rubberstamped. My guess is going to be the latter -- which Minister wants to the one who was "soft on communism/terrorism"?
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#77It's odd, I hear people saying, "no big deal, nothing will change." But then I wonder, if you're saying it's no big deal, are you an American or not? The point of this pst is that foreign business will be affected, AFAICT, Europeans have always held the Internet to a stricter standard than Americans and have passed stricter laws around everything from what data can be retained to the behaviour of tracking cookies. If…
Europeans tend to have higher standards for protecting the privacy of the personal data of their citizens from access and use by private corporations. But what the U.S. NSA is doing is sifting data for connections to foreigners who are suspected of being terrorists. I would be shocked if Euro intelligence agencies are not doing the same thing.
"Everybody's doing it!" isn't really a good excuse once you turn about 12 years old.
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#78No. Because most people don't care about privacy that much. See TSA scanners, foursquare, hell GMail scans your data everytime you read mails, Facebook doesn't even pretend there is a privacy. Damn, first thing any Apple computer do is taking your picture, getting your details and sending it all to Cupertino, before you even load the OS. Android tries to track all your phones under one account you have to add before…
I don't care about privacy for my personal (not corporate) information from Google. The worst they can do is disconnect me, and I can always leave them. I do care about that an organisation with the power to legally kill or imprison me without trial, with the world's strongest military and a penchant for punishing anyone who embarasses them has all of my data, including who I associate with, what I say and whereever…
> If not Obama, someone at the head of the table is going to abuse this information one day.
I'd worry less about someone at the head of the table -- who has a lot of visibility and responsibility -- and more about the legion of prosecutors and officers (plus their friends they owe favors to) who all have incentives to catch bad guys... whether they're actually bad, or just barely find themselves on the wrong side of an interpretation of some statute, or just fit the profile.
And of course, the occasional less duty-oriented reasons for making your life difficult.
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#79One biggie that the author left out of the piece: The US Gov continues to insist that they are not monitoring the data of US citizens because that would be unconstitutional without warrants. But that's a tacit admission that they are openly monitoring the data of non-US citizens. I think this is one of the most important revelations of this leak, the US Gov has made it clear that if you are a non US citizen using a w…
I don't expect non-Americans to be all that familiar with my country, and vice versa. But think about it. The NSA has been around since 1952. They now have N billions of dollars of black budget. The relevant Congressional oversight committees are prohibited from talking about what they learn. They are (supposedly) constitutionally prohibited from spying on Americans. If they aren't (or say the aren't) spying on Ameri…
Well obviously many governments have spies. There's even a genre of entertainment constructed around spies. And generally in the spy narrative the spy is after guys from the other country, not his own.
The revelation here is that if you are a non-American your data that you store via a company based in the US is available to the US government with virtually (maybe even literally?) no protections. And this isn't tin foil paranoia, the US Government just told you that in public discourse.
Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?
#80This is a huge deal. I live in Australia and I have been running businesses on the cloud for the last 3 years or so. I have rarely heard the issue of the PATRIOT Act raised and in spite of there being laws banning the transfer of personal data outside Australia, most people are quite lax about the issue and take the view that the risks are too small to be counted. Those days are most certainly over. This stuff will a…
Wasn't Australia already implicated as a collaborator in ECHELON?