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Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

petitions.whitehouse.gov

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Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#121

Post by cpursley »

olefoo wrote: post #99
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

A more effective list of tactics (for the long term): 1. poison databases; feed bogus information to surveillance systems at all levels, do this as a matter of course, make it pop culture. 2. build darknets: for instance wifi nodes disconnected from the internet that multiple communities use as a dropbox and rendezvous point ( a linux box, a solar cell, some git magic (or UUCP/Usenet for the old school feel ), and yo…

Good idea. Overwhelm the system with the keywords they're flagging.

i.e., bomb. pentagon. drop-point. fertilizer. sarah jessica parker.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#122

Post by thaumasiotes »

nikcub wrote: post #23

You need to have been convicted to receive a pardon, the petition should be not to prosecute. Despite the semantics, this is a good idea to let the administration know that a lot of citizens do not consider what Snowden did to be a crime and support his actions.

A petition not to prosecute, even if it was granted, would be worthless. If someone's pardoned, then they can't be prosecuted again. If they're just not-prosecuted, they can easily be prosecuted later.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#123

Post by mpyne »

camus wrote: post #118
mpyne wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collected but not "seized", and then not searched at all without a warrant? Those records? On a side note it's fascinating how the government has taken the 'digital piracy' logic of "I didn't steal it, the guy I copied it from still has their copy!" and re-arranged that to apply to digital data on a person. I'm not sure whether to cringe or be impressed...

is there really a difference ? i mean if the cops copy your hardrive , what is it ? collecting or seizing ? just because they dont actually look into it is ok ? I agree about your your piracy point , you are spot on ,which show how twisted the government is. They are just legal hackers, that's what they are, but they'll sue you if you do the same.

Well I think the point is that when the 4th Amendment was written seizure actually did mean that they took your crap. You had your papers, then you didn't.

Even if they were going to copy your work that would be a "search" as some government agent would have to copy that paperwork.

Things are different now, so that's one of the things we as a society need to figure out is how much the 4th Amendment is different to match.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#124

Post by md224 »

logn wrote: post #116
timr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not PRISM. That's the other program revealed last week. The warrantless collection of phone number "metadata" has also been ruled legal by the Supreme Court, whereas the legal basis for PRISM has never been reviewed by SCOTUS. Which leads me to an important aside: how much of the outrage being vented here comes from people who don't even know that these are two different programs? Take everything you read here…

I know the difference between the two. My point was that the Verizon collection of data very clearly was for the entire customer base of their major subsidiary. Also this 'metadata' has a staggering amount of information, like geocodes, dialed and received numbers, potentially content of SMS, downloaded apps, sites visited, etc. Further if this subsidiary controlled any Internet backbone (which I have no idea if that…

> Anyhow, as other have pointed out, it's not hard to draft a specific warrant for the narrow group of 'every US user 13 years or older' which is what I'd presume PRISM involved.

Can you really get a warrant that broad? I assumed PRISM still entailed warrants issued on a user-by-user basis.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#126

Post by dylangs1030 »

rd108 wrote: post #97
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

This is foolish. Non-violent protest is how the Civil Rights movement and Martin Luther King, Jr. forced better law, Gandhi did the same and freed India from the British empire. And today we're much more networked and able to communicate directly, P2P, without the media or government as message passer. Our system works remarkably well, considering how poorly it works ;) Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater- th…

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean we should be violent. I specifically said civil disobedience because I meant non-violent protest.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#127

Post by timr »

logn wrote: post #116
timr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not PRISM. That's the other program revealed last week. The warrantless collection of phone number "metadata" has also been ruled legal by the Supreme Court, whereas the legal basis for PRISM has never been reviewed by SCOTUS. Which leads me to an important aside: how much of the outrage being vented here comes from people who don't even know that these are two different programs? Take everything you read here…

I know the difference between the two. My point was that the Verizon collection of data very clearly was for the entire customer base of their major subsidiary. Also this 'metadata' has a staggering amount of information, like geocodes, dialed and received numbers, potentially content of SMS, downloaded apps, sites visited, etc. Further if this subsidiary controlled any Internet backbone (which I have no idea if that…

"I know the difference between the two. My point was that the Verizon collection of data very clearly was for the entire customer base of their major subsidiary."

Again, though...that program is legal. It's not even a controversial point (unlike with PRISM). From what I know of it, the rationale for the supreme court decision that says mass collection of metadata is legal is fairly well established, has a long judicial precedent, etc.

Yes, Snowden's rationale seems to be forthright. He's bothered by the implications of surveillance on this kind of scale. And I get it -- hell, I even agree. But most of the commentary I've been seeing on HN is just embarrassingly uninformed (or misinformed).

"it's not hard to draft a specific warrant for the narrow group of 'every US user 13 years or older' which is what I'd presume PRISM involved."

All of the public information about PRISM has explicitly said that information can only be obtained when one party to the conversation is a foreign national. I've read nothing to suggest that broad warrants of the sort you describe are any more legal than before.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#130

Post by Sven7 »

olefoo wrote: post #99
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

A more effective list of tactics (for the long term): 1. poison databases; feed bogus information to surveillance systems at all levels, do this as a matter of course, make it pop culture. 2. build darknets: for instance wifi nodes disconnected from the internet that multiple communities use as a dropbox and rendezvous point ( a linux box, a solar cell, some git magic (or UUCP/Usenet for the old school feel ), and yo…

Just curious, how old are you?
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