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Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

petitions.whitehouse.gov

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Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#41

Post by billsix »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

> If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience.

How do you define "to riot", and "civil disobedience". They sound mutually exclusive to me.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#42

Post by timr »

WildUtah wrote: post #36
jfoutz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, which law was it that you think they broke? I'd happily agree what the NSA did was just as wrong as, say, making it to easy to get mortgages. But the law and morality don't always agree.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause , supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

PRISM, as described, is a warrant-based program. But you're right...we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a proper angry mob.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#43

Post by cinquemb »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

True, but let us give them the chance to ignore yet another petition and truly prove to us that we as citizens have little say in the status quo in the government that is supposed to represent all its people. More fuel for the fire couldn't hurt eh?

Besides it's summer time…

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#44

Post by ohazi »

sigzero wrote: post #37
jfoutz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, which law was it that you think they broke? I'd happily agree what the NSA did was just as wrong as, say, making it to easy to get mortgages. But the law and morality don't always agree.

Exactly. The FISA court probably ok'd it, which makes it legal (as far as that goes).

A FISA court stamp doesn't give them some magical ability to suddenly ignore the 4th amendment.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#45

Post by saraid216 »

beloch wrote: post #2

It may as well read: Sign here to admit you are treasonous terrorist-loving scum who should be under constant surveillance by the NSA for the protection of all fine, upstanding, compliant 'merican citizens.

Nah, they know that the people who'd sign a petition like this aren't a threat whatsoever.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#46

Post by eightyone »

sigzero wrote: post #37
jfoutz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, which law was it that you think they broke? I'd happily agree what the NSA did was just as wrong as, say, making it to easy to get mortgages. But the law and morality don't always agree.

Exactly. The FISA court probably ok'd it, which makes it legal (as far as that goes).

This is false. The FISC found the NSA spying to be unconstitonal.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/government-says-secret...

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#47

Post by staunch »

timr wrote: post #42
WildUtah wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause , supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

PRISM, as described, is a warrant-based program. But you're right...we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a proper angry mob.

A warrant that applies to everyone, and is not based on probable cause, quite clearly violates the Fourth Amendment.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#49

Post by eightyone »

timr wrote: post #42
WildUtah wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause , supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

PRISM, as described, is a warrant-based program. But you're right...we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a proper angry mob.

Take a look at this comment of mine.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5850851

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