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Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

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31–40 of 79 posts

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#31

What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage. Totally understandable. But then there are the senators..…

Whoa horsey. Slow down a bit. I'm as pissed as you are, but you're spreading too wide of a net.

Yes, Congress has oversight authority over all of this, but in practice what they've done is assign huge powers to agencies and then just hold PR committee meetings every now and then when they think they can get votes.

As far as I know, the only legislators fully briefed on all of this were the majority/minority leaders. Perhaps the chairmen of the intelligence committees. Perhaps not. Definitely not the entire committee, and definitely not every senator who can appear in front of a microphone.

The real problem here is that Congress has abdicated its power over to agencies ran by the president. This is true in many areas. If things screw up, they can have hearings and look like heroes. If things go well, they can either ignore them or make hay. In either case, nobody really cares what the agencies are doing. It's impossible. There simply too much detail for the legislature to manage. So the rule is: never do anything that will make you appear on TV. This is what the NSA violated.

I'd just be careful you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Congress has the power, and could use it, to straighten this entire thing out. It's not just all PR stunts. Or how about putting it this way: yes, it's PR stunts, but with enough attention on these stunts, maybe the rest of them will grow the balls necessary to actually do their jobs.

This is a good sign. I hope we see many more "PR stunts" like it.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#32

What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage. Totally understandable. But then there are the senators..…

Agreed, Rand Paul has had access to this information for years. He's just playing on people's emotions to get more support now that it's all public.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#34

What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage. Totally understandable. But then there are the senators..…

To be fair to Paul, this is his first term -- he's been in the Senate for a bit longer than 2 years now. So he certainly wasn't involved in decisions made "long ago". That said, I generally disagree with many of his stances, and think you're probably right that a lot of what he does is fundamentally political.

I don't understand why people accuse politicians of using politics. Isn't that like accusing a farmer of plowing a field?

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#35
post #25

Since he's a member of the Senate, a more direct route than the judicial branch would be to pursue legislative-branch solutions, such as introducing a bill to amend the FISA statute in a more civil-liberties-friendly manner.

But Congress is filled with Democrats and RINOs, so that's a no-go. Of course, the Court is filled with know-nothings (as in, they are anti-abstraction, so there is no such thing as a valid governing principle, such as a right), so it's all probably pretty pointless.

How is being pro national security and strong police/intelligence a "RINO" position? That's a very traditional Republican position, dating back at least to the early 1950s and cold-war conservatism, and hardening in the 1960s/70s with conservatives' worries about the Vietnam protests, hippies, Black Panthers, and other groups they felt needed to be suppressed. Most Republican-appointed Supreme Court justices have tended to be pro-military and pro-police-power along those lines— Rehnquist, Burger, and Alito being three of the harder-line examples.

Perhaps you're thinking of an alternate history where the Republicans were a primarily libertarian rather than a primarily conservative party?

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Paul, this is his first term -- he's been in the Senate for a bit longer than 2 years now. So he certainly wasn't involved in decisions made "long ago". That said, I generally disagree with many of his stances, and think you're probably right that a lot of what he does is fundamentally political.

I don't understand why people accuse politicians of using politics. Isn't that like accusing a farmer of plowing a field?

Politicians can't get elected admitting they're politicians.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#37

What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage. Totally understandable. But then there are the senators..…

> The American people have basically known about this since about 2006

2006?

Try 1997

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON_system

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#38
post #27

What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage. Totally understandable. But then there are the senators..…

Rand Paul may have its faults. Many people like libertarianism but they don't like the pro-religion/prolife and pro-rich aspects that come with it. That's why Bill Maher has distanced himself recently from the libertarian appelation. However to say that it's not sincere coming from Rand Paul is not fair at all. If you know a little bit about who he is, who his father is, you couldn't say that... Of course Rand Paul i…

Your speculation about the GOP primaries is mis-informed. In 2010, Rand was an insurgent "tea party" republican, as was Rubio -- both men were officially opposed by the party in their primaries and defeated the "generic" GOP candidate. In both the GOP and Democrat parties, generic candidates often struggle in primaries if there is a non-crazy candidate who can appeal to the base. Rand has a safe path back to the GOP nomination -- his biggest risk is doing too much "national" work and losing to an establishment Democrat in battleground Kentucky.

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Paul, this is his first term -- he's been in the Senate for a bit longer than 2 years now. So he certainly wasn't involved in decisions made "long ago". That said, I generally disagree with many of his stances, and think you're probably right that a lot of what he does is fundamentally political.

I don't understand why people accuse politicians of using politics. Isn't that like accusing a farmer of plowing a field?

I wouldn't bother mentioning it if I didn't see people claiming otherwise.[1] :)

1. Not necessarily in this thread, but in general. (I live in KY.)

Re: Rand Paul wants to lead a Supreme Court challenge to Feds' tracking of Americans

#40
post #32

What amazes me is the hypocrisy in all this. The American people have basically known about this since about 2006. It's just that there wasn't as much proof or specifics but the media covered this and it was pretty much common knowledge that all phone calls and Internet activity were being watched. Of course that's not okay and I still get the current outrage. Totally understandable. But then there are the senators..…

Agreed, Rand Paul has had access to this information for years. He's just playing on people's emotions to get more support now that it's all public.

"Years".. as in just over two of them?
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