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Are coders worth it?

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Re: Are coders worth it?

#311

Post by skybrian »

nilkn wrote: post #267
skybrian wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that there's always someone richer, younger, and better looking (and if not, wait a few years). But if that's what you pay attention to then you'll always be unhappy. Get a more diverse set of friends and you might realize what you have is already is pretty good.

I don't contest any of that (in fact I agree completely), but that's all a different topic. This is about whether software developers are overpaid, not about happiness or social circles. All I'm saying is a developer getting $150k/year in one of the most expensive cities in the world working for a company with tens, hundreds, or thousands of millions of dollars in funding or revenue should not feel guilty or overpaid…

I think it is relevant, because "overpaid" or "underpaid" don't mean anything until you decide who you're going to compare to. It's fundamentally subjective. Compare yourself to teachers or average U.S. salary and you could make a different argument.

(The trick of only comparing to people who are paid more than you is used by execs all the time in corporate compensation committees.)

Re: Are coders worth it?

#312

Post by BerislavLopac »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #159
BerislavLopac wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what makes you think that moving would help?

Why would moving from place where your job is in low-to-medium income range to place where the same job will be in decent-to-high income range help? For starters, you'll have more money.

Yeah, I have worded my question poorly, but the problem here is that simply moving is sometimes so difficult that it barely remains an option.

One important reason for that is that a lot of people who have enough skills and experience to be able to find a much better job elsewhere simply are not allowed -- or face extreme obstacles -- to move to that elsewhere. Visas, work permits, relocation expenses and other issues pile up quickly.

Adding to that other factors like age, family, lack of network in the new place (which is crucial when finding a job) etc, and you will see a quite different issue than you might be used to in terms of relocation.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#313

Post by BerislavLopac »

gte910h wrote: post #188
vinceguidry wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a call from a poor recruiter in Chattanooga, TN trying to fill a Rails job. Seemed to be getting a little desperate. Being in Atlanta, I have no trouble finding stuff right here. When he tried to punk me by saying, "Well, if you have roots I can understand," with a tone like I'm hurting my career prospects by not being willing to move, I asked, "Well, just for kicks, what kind of compensation is being offered h…

Yeah, I feel a bit bad for the recruiters trying to get senior/lead level guys for "fresh from GT CS program" wages. Or trying to hire iOS devs for $50 an hour.

I know a lot of (iOS and other) developers who would kill for a chance to work for $50 an hour...

Re: Are coders worth it?

#314

Post by Datsundere »

abraininavat wrote: post #173
gvb wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We cannot put software on the kind of assembly line/stamping process we can with say door hinges or other metal works that used to require a skilled blacksmith. That doesn't mean it won't happen some day. Stamping out software is what your Windows/OSX/linux installation CD/DVD is. Microsoft is making a lot of money stamping out (figuratively nowadays) copies of Windows. Software engineering is the equivalent of the m…

Stamping out software is what your Windows/OSX/linux installation CD/DVD is. Microsoft is making a lot of money stamping out (figuratively nowadays) copies of Windows. I think you misunderstood. The product a software engineer makes is not a CD that lands in a person's hand. It's the arrangement of bits that eventually ends up on that CD. The OP is saying there is no way for a machine to arrange those bits.

We are getting closer and closer to machine learning. Eventually coders will get replaced.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#315

Post by vinceguidry »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #313
gte910h wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I feel a bit bad for the recruiters trying to get senior/lead level guys for "fresh from GT CS program" wages. Or trying to hire iOS devs for $50 an hour.

I know a lot of (iOS and other) developers who would kill for a chance to work for $50 an hour...

I do believe the GP is talking about freelance work, not full time jobs. $50 an hour 40 hours a week is $100K/year, freelancing, that's a pittance.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#316

Post by BerislavLopac »

vinceguidry wrote: post #315
BerislavLopac wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of (iOS and other) developers who would kill for a chance to work for $50 an hour...

I do believe the GP is talking about freelance work, not full time jobs. $50 an hour 40 hours a week is $100K/year, freelancing, that's a pittance.

I'm talking about freelance developers too. The usual rate here is extremely rarely over $35 (for clients in the US).

Re: Are coders worth it?

#317

Post by gte910h »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #313
gte910h wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I feel a bit bad for the recruiters trying to get senior/lead level guys for "fresh from GT CS program" wages. Or trying to hire iOS devs for $50 an hour.

I know a lot of (iOS and other) developers who would kill for a chance to work for $50 an hour...

I was referring to freelance, where that works out to about 35k a year.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#318

Post by gte910h »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #313
gte910h wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I feel a bit bad for the recruiters trying to get senior/lead level guys for "fresh from GT CS program" wages. Or trying to hire iOS devs for $50 an hour.

I know a lot of (iOS and other) developers who would kill for a chance to work for $50 an hour...

I was referring to freelance, where that works out to about 35k a year.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#319

Post by [deleted] »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #313
gte910h wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I feel a bit bad for the recruiters trying to get senior/lead level guys for "fresh from GT CS program" wages. Or trying to hire iOS devs for $50 an hour.

I know a lot of (iOS and other) developers who would kill for a chance to work for $50 an hour...

[deleted]

Re: Are coders worth it?

#320

Post by jacques_chester »

rdouble wrote: post #123
nissimk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes and cost of living are very high. It doesn't go as far as you think. But there are a lot of beautiful people and culture.

Personally, I found it did go as far as I thought it would, in NYC. It might even seem like a bargain if you're coming from Australia. You finally get to live large, banking the same sums as an apprentice electrician from Perth.

As a Perthan and ex-Darwinite, I don't find the reported cost of living in the Bay Area or NYC to be quite that bad.
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