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People with nothing to hide

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Re: People with nothing to hide

#181

Post by orofino »

tekacs wrote: post #150
simgidacav wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...then they say "hey, our server with all your confidential information has been cracked, and we are leaking". Now your private info is public.

As much as it might feel nice to make suggestions such as this, it's probably worth remembering that this sort of data is probably gapped from the external network (no data flow outward). If anybody knows (and has experience) well enough about keeping data safe (indeed through doing quite the opposite), it's these guys. Whilst it's well established that in software there's not much we can do to avoid bugs and other v…

So were the systems for managing the Natanz nuclear facility in Iran. The system can be compromised, given the proper will and facilities.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#183

Post by stefanix »

pinaceae wrote: post #179

I seriously don't get the mouthfrothing outrage. For years and years, everyone knowledgeable kept saying - if you post it on the internet, it is public. You're using Google - Google reads your stuff. Algorithms build a profile of you, select ads, etc. You're using Amazon - Amazon knows and never forgets what you're buying and browsing for. You're using Credit Cards - the CC company knows a lot about you. You have a b…

I do agree that many of us knew about the privacy implications of software as a service already and the outrage is somewhat artificial and about reminding others.

It's still a notable event when huge amounts of personal data leave the different silos and is combined and exchanged. It's a breach of trust when you voluntarily give personal information to a company and then this information leaks to a third party where it's further exchanged with subcontractor companies. At this point accountability and transparency is completely lost.

If you have personal data on google and google abuses this information you have ways of dealing with it. You can change the service, out the company, sue, ... With an opaque shadow industry there is little you can do in case of abuse.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#184

Post by dkersten »

tekacs wrote: post #150
simgidacav wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...then they say "hey, our server with all your confidential information has been cracked, and we are leaking". Now your private info is public.

As much as it might feel nice to make suggestions such as this, it's probably worth remembering that this sort of data is probably gapped from the external network (no data flow outward). If anybody knows (and has experience) well enough about keeping data safe (indeed through doing quite the opposite), it's these guys. Whilst it's well established that in software there's not much we can do to avoid bugs and other v…

I used to work on anti-fraud software for SMS and we had VPN access to a lot of the installed hardware.

I'd be more worried about an employee leaking data. Most telcos have many many employees and a carefully planned leak would be difficult to detect and prevent. In one installation I was involved in, we had access to all SMS messages in the system, in realtime, before the recipients got them. It would have been pretty easy to copy them to a memory stick and then leak them sometime later.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#185

Post by sirclueless »

D9u wrote: post #81
rmc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Select bias. You don't know what they did stop.

"They" knew that the "Ft Hood shooter" had been in contact with extremists, yet we all know what the end result there was. 13 dead 30 + wounded

This is extremely counterproductive. You aren't going to get anywhere simultaneously bemoaning the damage caused by extremist acts and the excesses of the NSA.

When you point out the failures of the NSA to stop specific instances of terrorism, it only suggests that they need more resources and legal surveillance. The reasons for wanting the NSA surveillance to stop have to be that the innumerable injustices suffered by citizens under a surveillance state would be worse than the occasional extremist attack that would be preventable under such surveillance.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#186

Post by skc »

I think it's more of a case of lay-people realising the irony in using say, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Whatsapp, BBM products and then complaining that someone somewhere is tracking them.

Or is the assumption in here that corporations are more trustworthy than government?

Re: People with nothing to hide

#188

Post by capnrefsmmat »

john_flintstone wrote: post #78

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

Responses like these just legitimize the idea that privacy is about hiding things. It isn't. Privacy is a way of restricting the government's power over you.

Giving the government the power to read your email, tap your phone, and record your porn usage isn't bad simply because it's embarrassing. After all, the data will likely only be seen by a computer. But it gives the government enormous power to make decisions about you -- decisions about whether you may take a commercial airline flight, get a security clearance, get a job, or even be indefinitely detained -- without your knowledge or consent, and without you knowing how they make the decisions.

Recall the stories of people getting on the no-fly list with no appeals process and no way to find out what information had been used to put them there.

In short, a lack of privacy gives the government the power to be even less transparent in its decision-making, and gives it yet more power over its citizens. It's not a question of discovering your fetishes or being embarrassed, and we shouldn't act as though having nothing to hide really is an excuse.

There's a rather good paper I can recommend on the subject:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565

(I've posted this several times over the past few months, so this is half self-plagiarism)

Re: People with nothing to hide

#189

Post by CapitalistCartr »

Don't let the gov't frame the question. Just because I don't report every detail of my personal life, every thought, every word out of my mouth to my gov't does not mean I'm "hiding something". Because I refuse to cooperate spying on me doesn't mean I'm hiding something. Perhaps it means I simply know better than to entertain the paranoid obsessions of the powerful.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#190

Post by hannibal5 »

heyitsnick wrote: post #70

The sad irony out of all this is that if you are served with an NSL, you now are legally obligated to have something to hide . As Nicholas Merrill, writing anonymously in 2007 for the Washington Post [1] puts it: "Living under the gag order has been stressful and surreal. Under the threat of criminal prosecution, I must hide all aspects of my involvement in the case -- including the mere fact that I received an NSL -…

What has happened to citizen disobedience in America?

What would happen if 1000-5000 people who have been served NSL would come out at same day. Many of them working in big companies.

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