Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

People with nothing to hide

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 268 posts

Re: People with nothing to hide

#161

Post by tammer »

It amazes me how the racism embedded in our theoretical "equality" prevents people from talking about the real threat here.

Sure, there's the philosophical loss of privacy and the threat of fear-based self-censorship. But the real people under attack are those with tenuous immigration status, low income and/or affiliation with minority communities. These are the people the US has been terrorizing since 9/11, yet don't have enough social capital to get the media (or HN) involved when they're illegally searched and wrongfully accused.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#162

Post by natch »

mehwoot wrote: post #116
stfu wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand in how far this is an act of shaming. If I walk around the pool and tell people that I like to get thrown into the pool I expect somebody to throw me into the pool.

Each of those tweets I can see says "nothing to hide from the government ". You are not the government. Secondly, the fact that you would stoop to doing exactly the sort of thing you oppose, because these people are on the other side of a debate, shows exactly the sort of thinking that creates these problems in the first place. Even if they explicitly asked for it, which they didn't , you still shouldn't do it if you…

He/she might work for the government. Now, or in the future.

And you (and they) are assuming the government can keep private information private.

And the second part of what you said is compelling. I do wonder though whether the benefit achieved by the action stfu suggests might on balance overcome any detriment.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#163

Post by corresation »

goostavos wrote: post #144
corresation wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have no idea what they actually did prevent, and a single case where they failed demonstrates little. Further, pointing out the failure in the Boston bombing is a poor counterpoint given that to many it would suggest that increased surveillance is necessary, not less. I'm not American, so I can't really speak to the domestic angle. I am immensely concerned about the foreign angle, however -- if the US government c…

>>We have no idea what they actually did prevent Ugh.. what terrible reasoning. The absence of data is not somehow possible data. >pointing out the failure in the Boston bombing is a poor counterpoint given that to many it would suggest that increased surveillance is necessary, not less. It's actually a rather good counter point. It shows that the FBI/NSA/big brother already can't process all of the data it has in a…

The absence of data is not somehow possible data

When you don't HAVE the data, it is nonsense to make conclusions as if you have the data, which is exactly what you and others are doing. Terrible reasoning indeed.

shows that the FBI/NSA/big brother already can't process all of the data

Once again -- no data (you have absolutely no idea what data they have or don't have), but you can declare that the problem is processing data.

There is a trend here.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#164

Post by Tosh108 »

john_flintstone wrote: post #78

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

Talking about the content of what they might know is a distraction of the real problem. If there is too much power and information with one organization (the goverment in this case) bad things happen to individuals that go against these organizations.

This a problem that's not exclusive to police states, it also affect western democracies and corporations. For the US right now the individuals at stake are the ones that go against and or scare the status quo: whisteblowers, hackers, political activists, etc.

If you want a concrete example the post on HN from just a few hours ago is a great one: https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/05/15-7

Re: People with nothing to hide

#165

Post by noerps »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #77
noerps wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of privacy is inherent for dubio pro reo. If you take away or reduce privacy everybody is guilty by association - qed.

But then you can't jail everyone. That's where you stop living a lie and adapt laws to reality.

A system of prison-labour combined with house arrest or curfews - if you look at it from a government perspective it is possible to imprison everybody.

I suggest you spent some time reading about oppressive governments before you state you can't do it.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#166

Post by Carlee »

ck2 wrote: post #39

Think about how the NSA helped stop all the killings and maimings at the boston bombing. Oh wait, they didn't - from two super stupid criminals not even trying to hide what they were planning. So WTF good are they doing for all the damage they've done to our society. NSA has become just like the TSA, completely useless theater that hassles everyone and accomplishes nothing. Just wait until they can park hundreds of d…

To me it's a bit like maintenance: You only notice it's there when it doesn't work.

Like someone else said, we have no idea how much crap they actually catch, maybe the boston incidence is just one instance out of many others that were prevented.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#167

Post by Qantourisc »

Must also be very very boring. Also what you may want to hide can change as social norms change. Every time I read "nothing to hide", I think about all does Jews and how many more would have died with today's internet.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#168

Post by zxcdw »

tekacs wrote: post #150
simgidacav wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...then they say "hey, our server with all your confidential information has been cracked, and we are leaking". Now your private info is public.

As much as it might feel nice to make suggestions such as this, it's probably worth remembering that this sort of data is probably gapped from the external network (no data flow outward). If anybody knows (and has experience) well enough about keeping data safe (indeed through doing quite the opposite), it's these guys. Whilst it's well established that in software there's not much we can do to avoid bugs and other v…

Just because it is possible to be very safe in theory and to some extent in practice doesn't mean that so will happen ifinitely from now on. People manage the data, people manage the access to the data and most importantly people make mistakes. Given that it is possible for the data to leak, there's a small probability for it happening, and thus it will happen eventually. Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. Murphy's law.

Also it's not just NSA doing this. Maybe in the US, but I assume that in Europe there are many similar centralized government databases full of information about people. And Asia.

The point is, given enough time the shit will hit the fan somewhere. No matter what. Don't try to deny this.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#169

Post by Qantourisc »

Carlee wrote: post #166
ck2 wrote: post #39

Think about how the NSA helped stop all the killings and maimings at the boston bombing. Oh wait, they didn't - from two super stupid criminals not even trying to hide what they were planning. So WTF good are they doing for all the damage they've done to our society. NSA has become just like the TSA, completely useless theater that hassles everyone and accomplishes nothing. Just wait until they can park hundreds of d…

To me it's a bit like maintenance: You only notice it's there when it doesn't work. Like someone else said, we have no idea how much crap they actually catch, maybe the boston incidence is just one instance out of many others that were prevented.

Then it's in their own interest to publish a few numbers from time to time.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#170

Post by lolcraft »

matteodepalo wrote: post #153
john_flintstone wrote: post #78

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

I don't have nothing to hide from the government. This doesn't mean everyone I know should know everything about me. I am just a number for people collecting information about me, whereas for YOU or anyone in my social circle, certain kind of information can change my reputation and the way I'm seen by my peers forever. Stop equating "the government is doing statistics about people and keeping that information confid…

> I don't have nothing to hide from the government.

Imagine some crazy, hard-line politicians get elected and make a law that retroactively throws to jail women who get abortions. Or homosexuals. Or maybe it's a party that decides the 1% is due for some rich-shaming, who knows. Last century it was communists, and maybe the USA will feel nostalgia for that again[1] but, who knows who will paranoia strike tomorrow? This fellow at the NSA could be a very honest person that votes, say Remocratic, and you're a Depublican senator who's had an affair, so naturally this pious person decides to blow some whistles, should this pseudo-crime go unpunished.

Not to mention bullshit non-crimes like smoking pot, drug consumption, or possession of child pornography. They get your pot dealer, now they've got you, and so the government gets to enforce a ridiculous law much more tyrannically.

> If you think the problem is that the government could leak that information, anyone that is currently handling your data (e.g. Google) could.

Not everybody is okay with Google doing that either. That's why I, as an European, support stricter, better privacy laws at the European Union level.

[1] Don't laugh, it has happened. Some months ago, many Chinese nationals were fired from the NASA HQ in Virginia, then arrested, at the request of the Virginian senator. Their crime? Being Chinese, and thus suspects of espionage. Imagine what levels of paranoia this new technology could enable, if put in the wrong hands.

Post reply on HN