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People with nothing to hide

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Re: People with nothing to hide

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That twitter bot should mix those questions with the automatic retweets. (and, just curious, but why does it matter if the local policeman is 23 years old? :) )

Young people tend to be less aware/accepting of morally shady things normal people do as they had less time themselves to make mistakes.

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#152

Privacy is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more resources we waste fighting for it, the bigger the real problem (which exploits the lack of privacy) will grow. The problem is not publicity. It's the government.

It's pretty evident that people get the exact kind of government they want and deserve. I feel no sympathy for anyone in this whole fiasco.

Sort of, yes.

But with the US I do have some sympathy. Trouble is, from my British European perspective, I feel that Americans only have two right wing conservative parties to chose from. One of the things that drives me mental is hearing Obama being described by Republicans as "socialist", even "communist", when Obama is politically further right and our Conservative party in the UK. US politics has no "left" what so ever. Obviously that is relative. But from a global perspective I think that holds.

On top of that money is everything in US politics, and the money goes to those two parties. A third party, more to the left, has zero chance. Then of course there is also the loud hysterical fear mongering right wing media. So, who can Americans vote for for real fundamental change? How could a new message even make it through to Americans? Obama was supposed to be that change, but it turns out he is merely a more intelligent looking President than Bush. His policies seem to have ended up as right wing as Bush's. I realise that his situation with the two houses has compromised him, but I don't recall all this spying and other things like killer robot drone murder being a big issue that he has to bend to. He chose to allow all that.

So, from my POV, its not clear to me what American voters can actually do.

Unless, these billionaire tech business men get their money together and "disrupt" traditional US politics with a new party. Which I believe they could fairly easily do. Especially as these people control the new media. While I'll happily mock the statements from google and facebook, I do get the sense that both really didnt like being roped in to the NSA's little scheme one little bit. Well, now may well be the time for them to get together and create a new political space for Americans, and possibly, the rest of us.

But, as things stand, and normally I would agree with your sentiment, I find it very hard to blame the American people. Here in the UK, and Europe, I believe we have far more choice, and can more reasonably be held to account for our governments. I feel that US government, with big business, has become more disconnected from the people than any other democracy in history.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#153

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

I don't have nothing to hide from the government. This doesn't mean everyone I know should know everything about me. I am just a number for people collecting information about me, whereas for YOU or anyone in my social circle, certain kind of information can change my reputation and the way I'm seen by my peers forever. Stop equating "the government is doing statistics about people and keeping that information confidential" with "everyone should know everything about anyone". If you think the problem is that the government could leak that information, anyone that is currently handling your data (e.g. Google) could.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other important thing to recognize: many people have leaked confidential/private info, even without them realizing it. Example: the SMS messages I send to my wife tend to contain more sensitive info than the Facebook messages I publish for the whole world to see. This is because I trust my wife and when she's the sole recipient of a message, I tend to be more honest and open-minded with her than I am with the res…

...then they say "hey, our server with all your confidential information has been cracked, and we are leaking". Now your private info is public.

> it's probably worth remembering that this sort of data is probably gapped from the external network (no data flow outward).

Lots of "probably". Indeed the whole eavesdropping story should have been secret, but it seems like it leaked from the same people that decided to protect you.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want to choose what rules apply to you in any given context? Or is it just that you're happy to be told by the government what the rules are for each context?

I want society to be more open. People hide who they are because other people hide who they are. Being open in a society where everybody else only show their good side is detrimental to me. It gives a false image of reality. I despise the government.

> People hide who they are because other people hide who they are.

NO dude, people hide who they are because other people don't like who they are or because other people may wrongly interpret who they are without the proper context, a fact that is known throughout history to have lead to discrimination, marginalization and even genocide when taken to the extreme.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#156

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

Nah, I'd go straight for:

Please list the names, addresses, dates of birth, phone numbers, and any private information you may have access to (SSN, credit card number, banking details) of your mother, father, brothers, sisters, children, and any other family members.

Might as well throw in all the info you have for any friends and acquaintances too.

And their private photos, too, because you don't care about hiding things that people have shared with you in confidence, right? You must not, because you said you have nothing to hide.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#157

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

Great list!

I tried to think of a persuasive, semi-automated way to use it and came up with this:

First, make a website where you would log in with Facebook or Google (and optionally give your Twitter handle) and then give answers to questions like the ones above. Filled-in answer forms would be stored and then (by default) accessible to the public (through a search form and a "latest" column on the front page). Include a small checkbox at the bottom to keep the filled-in form hidden from the public but available to the government upon request.

Now, when people say they "have nothing to hide" to you on-line do the following:

1. Link them to that website.

2. At this point they will most likely try to qualify their initial statement with a "from the government".

3. Bring to their attention the checkbox at the bottom.

4. "But the owner of the website might sell the data anyway!"

5. You are now at a good starting point for an in-depth conversation about privacy ("How is this different from Facebook?").

Of course, this is rather manipulative and could become obnoxiously overused, but would you rather this tool existed or not? Feel free also to suggest your improvements.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty evident that people get the exact kind of government they want and deserve. I feel no sympathy for anyone in this whole fiasco.

Sort of, yes. But with the US I do have some sympathy. Trouble is, from my British European perspective, I feel that Americans only have two right wing conservative parties to chose from. One of the things that drives me mental is hearing Obama being described by Republicans as "socialist", even "communist", when Obama is politically further right and our Conservative party in the UK. US politics has no "left" what s…

[deleted]

Re: People with nothing to hide

#159

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

For me, this misses the point. Regardless of whether or not I have nothing to hide now, that doesn't mean I won't have anything to hide in the future. We would you give the government a permanent lease on your personal details into the indefinite future? Even if you stay exactly the same, the government can change.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#160
post #39

Think about how the NSA helped stop all the killings and maimings at the boston bombing. Oh wait, they didn't - from two super stupid criminals not even trying to hide what they were planning. So WTF good are they doing for all the damage they've done to our society. NSA has become just like the TSA, completely useless theater that hassles everyone and accomplishes nothing. Just wait until they can park hundreds of d…

We have no idea what they actually did prevent, and a single case where they failed demonstrates little. Further, pointing out the failure in the Boston bombing is a poor counterpoint given that to many it would suggest that increased surveillance is necessary, not less. I'm not American, so I can't really speak to the domestic angle. I am immensely concerned about the foreign angle, however -- if the US government c…

>We have no idea what they actually did prevent, and a single case where they failed demonstrates little.

And that is the problem. Zero accountability to the very populace they are taking liberties away from.

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