Data intelligence complex is the real story • Hacker News Board

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#21

Post by carbocation » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:27 PM UTC

hga wrote: post #17

Achshar wrote: post #13

Is the site behind paywall? I don't want to register just to read one article.

Last time I checked it's a staged paywall. You get X articles for free without any action, X+Y articles if you register, there may be another "free" stage, and of course you can start paying and that may have more than one level. They compete with The Wall Street Journal , which is famously about the only paper that made a success of on-line subscriptions a long time ago.

FT apparently requires you to register to see your 8 free articles every 30 days. So you have to do something, not just nothing.

Any other sources on this story? The fact that the US spends $80 billion (overall?) on signals intelligence would not be particularly surprising.

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#22

Post by e40 » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:30 PM UTC

manuelflara wrote: post #10

pfortuny wrote: post #5

This is exactly what terrorists want: the impact of a terrorist act is, in the end, measured in money much more than in lives. They are not going to kill that many people in the end, what they want is to make people afraid and pervert all the freedom in a country. Because what they hate is our freedom, do not forget it. EDIT: BTW, being wrong (if I am) is a cause for downvotes? Grow up, you people.

Even though you have a point in that all this massive expense (and more) is a win for terrorists, I don't think they "hate our freedom". If anything, they hate those that cause them pain (like every other human being). The US have playing chess with the rest of the world for decades and they're starting to pay the price. This is not a war that terrorists started because they hated anyone's freedom (why don't they tar…

why don't they target Canada

They do[1], but I agree, not as often. I've felt for decades that we need to stop meddling in other country's affairs. Remember, we've been a target for decades, too. Hijackings and the first WTC bombing.

[1] http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/22/world/americas/canada-terror-p...

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#23

Post by hga » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:31 PM UTC

carbocation wrote: post #21

hga wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked it's a staged paywall. You get X articles for free without any action, X+Y articles if you register, there may be another "free" stage, and of course you can start paying and that may have more than one level. They compete with The Wall Street Journal , which is famously about the only paper that made a success of on-line subscriptions a long time ago.

FT apparently requires you to register to see your 8 free articles every 30 days. So you have to do something, not just nothing. Any other sources on this story? The fact that the US spends $80 billion (overall?) on signals intelligence would not be particularly surprising.

I guess they've changed their policy and I didn't notice because I registered a long time ago. Not a good idea, there should be no friction until you've tasted a bit of the fruit they're offering. Then again, such mechanisms tend to make it too easy to entirely circumvent the subscription system.

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#24

Post by corresation » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:34 PM UTC

Achshar wrote: post #13

Is the site behind paywall? I don't want to register just to read one article.

It is and shouldn't be on HN.

There is a recurring argument that these sorts of paywalls are okay for submissions because you can run various circumvention techniques that remove them. Aside from the serious legal grey area there (it may fall under the realm of "hacking"), it is in effect stealing for those of us who abide by intellectual property rights.

Sites that implement paywalls understand that they eschew social news sites as a consequence. Abide by that understanding.

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#25

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

pfortuny wrote: post #5

This is exactly what terrorists want: the impact of a terrorist act is, in the end, measured in money much more than in lives. They are not going to kill that many people in the end, what they want is to make people afraid and pervert all the freedom in a country. Because what they hate is our freedom, do not forget it. EDIT: BTW, being wrong (if I am) is a cause for downvotes? Grow up, you people.

[deleted]

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#26

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:44 PM UTC

jmduke wrote: post #18

pfortuny wrote: post #5

This is exactly what terrorists want: the impact of a terrorist act is, in the end, measured in money much more than in lives. They are not going to kill that many people in the end, what they want is to make people afraid and pervert all the freedom in a country. Because what they hate is our freedom, do not forget it. EDIT: BTW, being wrong (if I am) is a cause for downvotes? Grow up, you people.

The terrorists do not want to see the U.S. turn into a police state. The terrorists do not hate our freedoms. The terrorists -- and specifically I'm talking about al-Qaeda and related groups -- want "atrocities against Muslims" to end, they want support for Israel to end, they want U.S. presence in the Middle East to end.[1] Terror sects aren't B-movie villains. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/military/july-…

[deleted]

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#27

Post by hga » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:45 PM UTC

corresation wrote: post #24

Achshar wrote: post #13

Is the site behind paywall? I don't want to register just to read one article.

It is and shouldn't be on HN. There is a recurring argument that these sorts of paywalls are okay for submissions because you can run various circumvention techniques that remove them. Aside from the serious legal grey area there (it may fall under the realm of "hacking"), it is in effect stealing for those of us who abide by intellectual property rights. Sites that implement paywalls understand that they eschew soci…

A counterargument is that they have a registration wall that allows you to read a certain number of articles per month (currently 8 according to carbocation in another subthread of this thread). I find their content to be of sufficiently high quality I had no qualms about doing that some time ago.

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#28

Post by Ygg2 » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:47 PM UTC

jmduke wrote: post #18

pfortuny wrote: post #5

This is exactly what terrorists want: the impact of a terrorist act is, in the end, measured in money much more than in lives. They are not going to kill that many people in the end, what they want is to make people afraid and pervert all the freedom in a country. Because what they hate is our freedom, do not forget it. EDIT: BTW, being wrong (if I am) is a cause for downvotes? Grow up, you people.

The terrorists do not want to see the U.S. turn into a police state. The terrorists do not hate our freedoms. The terrorists -- and specifically I'm talking about al-Qaeda and related groups -- want "atrocities against Muslims" to end, they want support for Israel to end, they want U.S. presence in the Middle East to end.[1] Terror sects aren't B-movie villains. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/military/july-…

Terrorist just want to commit their atrocities in peace, without anyone bothering them.

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#29

Post by corresation » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:48 PM UTC

hga wrote: post #27

corresation wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is and shouldn't be on HN. There is a recurring argument that these sorts of paywalls are okay for submissions because you can run various circumvention techniques that remove them. Aside from the serious legal grey area there (it may fall under the realm of "hacking"), it is in effect stealing for those of us who abide by intellectual property rights. Sites that implement paywalls understand that they eschew soci…

A counterargument is that they have a registration wall that allows you to read a certain number of articles per month (currently 8 according to carbocation in another subthread of this thread). I find their content to be of sufficiently high quality I had no qualms about doing that some time ago.

Perhaps, though as a general rule HN bars any content that sits behind a login/registration, whether it's Facebook, Quora, etc.

Re: Data intelligence complex is the real story

#30

Post by pfortuny » Sat, Jun 08, 2013, 2:49 PM UTC

cjdavis wrote: post #12

pfortuny wrote: post #5

This is exactly what terrorists want: the impact of a terrorist act is, in the end, measured in money much more than in lives. They are not going to kill that many people in the end, what they want is to make people afraid and pervert all the freedom in a country. Because what they hate is our freedom, do not forget it. EDIT: BTW, being wrong (if I am) is a cause for downvotes? Grow up, you people.

I was with you right up to your last sentence. 'Our freedoms,' that's the number one cause of terrorism?

Yes: the freedom to say "I shall not comply with your exigencies just because you are powerful". This is what they hate. Because it prevents the fulfilment of their 'dreams'.

I live in Spain. I know something about terror, man. And what ETA despises is FREE people in the Basque Country, willing to say to them: get your shit out of my hands and my house.

Terrorist are cheap people, in that sense. B-series villains, really. They just hate people not complying with their wishes: i.e. 'free' people.

This is what each dictator hates most. And they are dictators: "I know what is right and shall put all means into play in order to obtain it".