Live data from Hacker News

“The government does not have access to Google servers”

plus.google.com

1–10 of 64 posts

Re: “The government does not have access to Google servers”

#3
The problem with all the denials is that journalists say "Google is doing X" and Google responds "We aren't doing Y" and everyone debates whether Y = X, Y is a subset of X, or Y is something completely different.

I feel as if so much could be cleared up if they would simply respond line by line to the stories by the NYTimes and Washington Post.

Re: “The government does not have access to Google servers”

#4
post #3

The problem with all the denials is that journalists say "Google is doing X" and Google responds "We aren't doing Y" and everyone debates whether Y = X, Y is a subset of X, or Y is something completely different. I feel as if so much could be cleared up if they would simply respond line by line to the stories by the NYTimes and Washington Post.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-onion-urges-barack-obam...

Re: “The government does not have access to Google servers”

#5
Even if it did, imagine how awfully damaging that would be for Google's image worldwide. So I could see why their immediate knee jerk reaction about it is to hide it as much as possible.

If he is telling the truth, at least about this very specific thing (not having access to "Google's servers"), then it's still possible they are giving them easy access in some other way, such as copying the data to other servers that are "not Google's servers".

So worse case scenario, he's blatantly lying about it. Probably best case scenario, they're still giving them the data wholesale in some way, and he's playing word games and semantics.

I have a very hard time believing none of this is happening, at this point. I hope I'm wrong though, but even then, the NSA probably has direct pipes into the carriers and ISP's, and at the very least have access to all the data going through US pipes that is unencrypted (and the encrypted data is stored for later - i.e. the 5 billion terrabyte Utah data center).

Re: “The government does not have access to Google servers”

#6
post #3

The problem with all the denials is that journalists say "Google is doing X" and Google responds "We aren't doing Y" and everyone debates whether Y = X, Y is a subset of X, or Y is something completely different. I feel as if so much could be cleared up if they would simply respond line by line to the stories by the NYTimes and Washington Post.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-onion-urges-barack-obam...

Weird, somehow extra characters are being added to the end of that url. Removing the trailing / fixes it.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-onion-urges-barack-obam...

Re: “The government does not have access to Google servers”

#7
I will go on record as standing with Google and its denials, even if that's an unpopular position right now.

Here are a few facts:

1. The New York Times article did not specifically cite PRISM, it only cited FISA, which was already largely known by the public. It is true that this could be because PRISM is allegedly justified under Section 702 of FISA, but they are not the same thing.[1] It would be most appropriate to say that one encompasses the other, but they have two separate protocols, and as of right now, only one was discussed by the Times.

2. Let's say the NYTimes article is about PRISM, and they simply didn't mention that acronym for whatever reason. If that is the case, the information leaked therein also makes it very clear that it is entirely possible for CEOs, chief officers, and other high ranking employees to be completely in the dark about it. The only people allowed to know about the requests for information are those who receive and analyze the requests. That's not a conspiracy theory - it's leaked right along with the rest of the information.[2] Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Dave Drummond, Yonaton Zunger, etc. might literally not know the extent of how far the government reaches in their companies.

3. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect the leaders of these named companies to stand together in righteous technological might against The Man. Nothing practical would be achieved by having Mark Zuckerberg or Larry Page penalized for what they said on record, in public against a government agency. Nothing would benefit the American people by having them put on trial or their companies sued for violating national security. The NSA designed a Catch-22 gag order that prevents those involved from even acknowledging the existence of government involvement or letter agencies, let alone detailing specific protocols or history.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Stop getting distracted from the real problem here. The threat to privacy is the NSA. The threat is our government(s). We have the power to fight it if we consolidate our focus with precision. We may feel wronged by the apparent lies of public figures but they had no choice, if they were even in the wrong. We cannot know what pressures were put upon them at this point in time.

Lay down your pitchforks and direct your anger and incredulity to your government, who ordered this - the public entity that made this legal and hidden and nearly impossible to speak out against. That is your real enemy.

[1]: http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/7/4407782/phone-spying-and-pr...

[2]: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/technology/tech-companies-...

Re: “The government does not have access to Google servers”

#8
post #2

This denial is fairly categorical. Any objection that centres on the idea that they're only saying this because they have to is in conspiracy theory territory. Nothing that Google says could possibly disprove that claim.

"According to the law" actually means "yes, we give the Government all access". Read this:

http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/07/doublespeak-denials-and-bro...;

Re: “The government does not have access to Google servers”

#9

I will go on record as standing with Google and its denials, even if that's an unpopular position right now. Here are a few facts: 1. The New York Times article did not specifically cite PRISM, it only cited FISA, which was already largely known by the public. It is true that this could be because PRISM is allegedly justified under Section 702 of FISA, but they are not the same thing. [1] It would be most appropriate…

> Lay down your pitchforks and direct your anger and incredulity to your government, who ordered this

It's also important to raise the awareness that our data isn't safe in Google's hands.

Re: “The government does not have access to Google servers”

#10
The government has done irreparable harm to these companies, because even if they are telling the truth, they will never be able to prove it (like Obama could never prove he wasn't born in Kenya) Each new bit of evidence supporting their position will be met with just more questions. That's the problem with government spooks, their capabilities are boundless, anything the mind can imagine, and there's simply not way to erase doubt. Can the NSA break public key encryption? No? Are you 100% sure? Does the NSA have a fibre-tap on all cables? Are they running continuous keyword searches on transcribed conversations of every American, in real time? Can you prove they don't have some secret new $30 billion data center, paid for by the $60 billion in Iraq money that went "missing"?

10 years from now, people will still be talking about this.

We need to roll back the Patriot Act, period.

Post reply on HN