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Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

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Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#101

Post by relix »

rosser wrote: post #30

As noted by many of the other comments, this is a fascinating article in so many different respects, but the most interesting take-away for me personally is a little detail that shows just how far the ripples cast from a seemingly small action can reach. If one day, decades ago, a teenaged boy's co-worker and friend hadn't wanted to live like "normal" folks instead of scroungers, and shared a sushi dinner with his fr…

Apparently Fujimoto really liked sushi. Combine that with the fact that living in Japan, you're going to be able to eat sushi at some point in your life, it was only a matter of time until he found out he really liked sushi and wanted to become a sushi-chef. For all we know, there had been several "close calls" before this one, his parents maybe wanting to celebrate a special occasion with sushi, but then changing their minds. If his friend hadn't treated them, he would've probably had other opportunities to taste sushi and find out the same thing.

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#102

Post by Stupendous »

luke_s wrote: post #99
epaga wrote: post #65

The sushi chef was leaving his apartment when he noticed the stranger outside. He could tell by the man's suit—black and badly made—that he was North Korean. Right away, the chef was nervous. Even in his midsixties, the chef is a formidable man: He has thick shoulders, a broad chest; the rings on his strong hands would one day have to be cut off. But he'd long since quit wearing his bulletproof vest, and the last tim…

The article is definitely great - but it never said what happened with the stranger outside his apartment!

Kim Jong Il's wife convinced him not to do it:

"Kim Jong-il soon summoned him. Yes, Shogun-sama admitted, he'd sent an assassin to Okinawa, but he urged Fujimoto to forget about it. He was still alive, wasn't he? It was Kim's wife, Ko Young-hee, who'd reminded him of how funny and lovable his Japanese friend had been. Thus the killer was recalled."

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#103

Post by TobbenTM »

Stupendous wrote: post #102
luke_s wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is definitely great - but it never said what happened with the stranger outside his apartment!

Kim Jong Il's wife convinced him not to do it: "Kim Jong-il soon summoned him. Yes, Shogun-sama admitted, he'd sent an assassin to Okinawa, but he urged Fujimoto to forget about it. He was still alive, wasn't he? It was Kim's wife, Ko Young-hee, who'd reminded him of how funny and lovable his Japanese friend had been. Thus the killer was recalled."

No, that was the man who visited him later.

"..and the last time a North Korean made the journey to visit him in Japan, a decade ago, he was there to kill him."

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#104

Post by dhimes »

newbie12 wrote: post #98
dhimes wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but the nation was eager to be deluded I don't think that's fair. We American citizens were told directly that Iraq had WMDs and an attack on us was imminent. If we were 'eager' for anything it was to stand together as a country. Most of us believed that the president had done due diligence (after all, he had access to intel that we didn't) and trusted him to do a competent job of analyzing the threat. We were wrong…

This is false. Nobody claimed or believed an attack on the US was imminent (although another attack on Israel was a concern), the idea was that taking out Saddam could help stabilize the middle east. In official Washington it was well understood that WMDs were just an excuse/legal justification/foreign policy explanation for finishing the job begun in Iraq in 1992.

Nonsense. That is exactly what the administration implied. By implying the Saddam Hussein had connections to Al Qaeda and had WMDs, he clearly implied that we had to stop Iraq or else we would be in grave danger. That constituted the bulk of his argument for the war.

Maybe "official Washington" (whatever that is) knew differently, but the Bush administration was selling the public on the vision of a mushroom cloud in front of the white house.

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#105

Post by gwern »

newbie12 wrote: post #97
gwern wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes the reasons for Iraq were pulled from the hat, but the nation was eager to be deluded. Not a conspiracy of two men in DC: can anyone really imagine the USA not invading anyone after the 9/11 attacks? But we did : we invaded Afganistan very quickly. Honor was basically satisfied, and that was why the Bush team had to whip up all the stories about the secular Baathists partnering with the religious fanatics of AQ…

Honor wasn't satisfied-- the top Taliban Mullah and Bin Laden both got away. And it wasn't just the Bush team whipping up support-- Congressional Democrats almost all voted to authorize force and the New York Times reporting supported WMDs as well. The consensus thinking was that Saddam was a bad guy who might have WMD, ongoing sanctions had their own human costs, and we were positioned to take him out easily.

> Honor wasn't satisfied-- the top Taliban Mullah and Bin Laden both got away.

But then it was a man-hunt, not a war. Honor was satisfied: a country's government which was seen as complicit and responsible was destroyed. Quibbling about Omar or Obama is like saying that the American public wasn't satisfied by the conquest of Japan in retribution for Pearl Harbor because the Emperor wasn't deposed and put on trial.

> And it wasn't just the Bush team whipping up support-- Congressional Democrats almost all voted to authorize force and the New York Times reporting supported WMDs as well.

Certainly. Once the drumbeats of war started.

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#106

Post by gwern »

newbie12 wrote: post #97
gwern wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes the reasons for Iraq were pulled from the hat, but the nation was eager to be deluded. Not a conspiracy of two men in DC: can anyone really imagine the USA not invading anyone after the 9/11 attacks? But we did : we invaded Afganistan very quickly. Honor was basically satisfied, and that was why the Bush team had to whip up all the stories about the secular Baathists partnering with the religious fanatics of AQ…

Honor wasn't satisfied-- the top Taliban Mullah and Bin Laden both got away. And it wasn't just the Bush team whipping up support-- Congressional Democrats almost all voted to authorize force and the New York Times reporting supported WMDs as well. The consensus thinking was that Saddam was a bad guy who might have WMD, ongoing sanctions had their own human costs, and we were positioned to take him out easily.

> Honor wasn't satisfied-- the top Taliban Mullah and Bin Laden both got away.

But then it was a man-hunt, not a war. Honor was satisfied: a country's government which was seen as complicit and responsible was destroyed. Quibbling about Omar or Obama is like saying that the American public wasn't satisfied by the conquest of Japan in retribution for Pearl Harbor because the Emperor wasn't deposed and put on trial.

> And it wasn't just the Bush team whipping up support-- Congressional Democrats almost all voted to authorize force and the New York Times reporting supported WMDs as well.

Certainly. Once the drumbeats of war started.

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#107

Post by Peeda »

uvdiv wrote: post #10

After eight years in captivity, she made a life-or-death escape from her guards after being sent to Vienna to promote Kim's latest film. Could someone explain how Austria permitted slaves to be held within its borders? Is this some sort of diplomatic privilege? This would be 1986 [1]. edit: Or a parallel (?) situation, Cuban athletes "escaping" from government minders inside the USA (2002 [2]). What power do foreign…

Well I'd imagine they left it off the customs declaration

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#108

Post by Cthulhu_ »

uvdiv wrote: post #10

After eight years in captivity, she made a life-or-death escape from her guards after being sent to Vienna to promote Kim's latest film. Could someone explain how Austria permitted slaves to be held within its borders? Is this some sort of diplomatic privilege? This would be 1986 [1]. edit: Or a parallel (?) situation, Cuban athletes "escaping" from government minders inside the USA (2002 [2]). What power do foreign…

Did the Austrians realize she was a slave? Did she realize it herself, for that matter? Everyone has stereotypes when it comes to slavery, and it's actually pretty hard to detect it, especially when the victim has been institutionalized as I can imagine this woman was.

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#109

Post by Cthulhu_ »

unreal37 wrote: post #87
sciguy77 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but how the hell is this guy a hero in any way? Undeterred by sex slavery, assassination, execution, and forced labor he neglects his first batch of children and allows the second to be interned, and he says he can't wait to get back to the DPRK. He only informed the Japanese because they were holding him.

The thing that made him so interesting to Kim Jung Il is his innocence. He didn't know about these things - sex slavery, concentration camps, and the like - he was just a guy making sushi and partying with the leader of a country. Maybe not a hero - but he's certainly an innocent bystander for the first few years of the story. He's not aware of all the evil that surrounds him which makes him so interesting.

Not aware, or simply indifferent? After being educated in what really goes on in NK, he still chooses to return, and besides talking to the police and providing valuable intel on the NK government's insides, he didn't - at least not in this article - do anything to improve the situation.

Or at least, not directly. He introduced Jong-Un to basketball and both him and his father to a lot of western culture, influencing to the point to where Jong-Il's burial is modeled after a movie they once watched.

Re: Kim Jong-il's Sushi Chef

#110

Post by unreal37 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #109
unreal37 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that made him so interesting to Kim Jung Il is his innocence. He didn't know about these things - sex slavery, concentration camps, and the like - he was just a guy making sushi and partying with the leader of a country. Maybe not a hero - but he's certainly an innocent bystander for the first few years of the story. He's not aware of all the evil that surrounds him which makes him so interesting.

Not aware, or simply indifferent? After being educated in what really goes on in NK, he still chooses to return, and besides talking to the police and providing valuable intel on the NK government's insides, he didn't - at least not in this article - do anything to improve the situation. Or at least, not directly. He introduced Jong-Un to basketball and both him and his father to a lot of western culture, influencing…

Which is why I said "the first few years". At some point, he realized people in his apartment building were disappearing, and he began to understand his life was in danger if he pissed Dear Leader off too much.
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