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Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#261

Post by lifeguard »

dkulchenko wrote: post #23

Look at the two writeups (Zuckerberg's and Page's) side by side. Each has 4 paragraphs. Each of the pairs of paragraphs addresses the same thing. 1st paragraph: we wanted to respond to these claims. 2nd paragraph: never heard of PRISM, don't give direct access. 3rd paragraph: each request goes through legal channels. 4th paragraph: encourage governments to be more transparent. Terrifying. EDIT: It gets worse. Here's…

"Tech companies might have also denied knowledge of the full scope of cooperation with national security officials because employees whose job it is to comply with FISA requests are not allowed to discuss the details even with others at the company, and in some cases have national security clearance, according to both a former senior government official and a lawyer representing a technology company. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/technology/tech-companies-...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#262

Post by sixothree »

outside1234 wrote: post #143
dkulchenko wrote: post #23

Look at the two writeups (Zuckerberg's and Page's) side by side. Each has 4 paragraphs. Each of the pairs of paragraphs addresses the same thing. 1st paragraph: we wanted to respond to these claims. 2nd paragraph: never heard of PRISM, don't give direct access. 3rd paragraph: each request goes through legal channels. 4th paragraph: encourage governments to be more transparent. Terrifying. EDIT: It gets worse. Here's…

Microsoft did directly deny being in a widescale program - it's here: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2013/Jun13/06-06st...

They don't participate in any "voluntary" programs.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#263

Post by icodestuff »

Reading between the lines:

> Facebook is not and has never been part of any program to give the US or any other government direct access to our servers.

We have however set up a tap that mirrors all traffic to Facebook to NSA servers, and we've given them the certificate to decrypt that traffic.

> We have never received a blanket request or court order from any government agency asking for information or metadata in bulk, like the one Verizon reportedly received.

Instead, we were requested to provide our SSL certificate and to install some hardware in our data center. We never handed over any data ourselves.

> And if we did, we would fight it aggressively.

Too much work to provide all that data. Best to just give them a mirrored PHY stream.

> We hadn't even heard of PRISM before yesterday.

We didn't know _what_ the program was called; they never told us, specifically for plausible deniability reasons.

> When governments ask Facebook for data, we review each request carefully to make sure they always follow the correct processes and all applicable laws, and then only provide the information if is required by law.

Technically, they didn't ask for user data, they asked for a hardware interconnect and a private key.

> We will continue fighting aggressively to keep your information safe and secure.

Our lawyers made us say this. C'mon, we're Facebook, what do you expect?

> We strongly encourage all governments to be much more transparent about all programs aimed at keeping the public safe. It's the only way to protect everyone's civil liberties and create the safe and free society we all want over the long term.

Good God, what have we done?! We're under an NSL, can't you tell that, people?!

Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#264

Post by beedogs »

vecter wrote: post #243
wheels wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't Occam's Razor instead suggest that since the Page statement was much earlier that Zuckerberg or whoever wrote this (probably not Mark) just copied the style of Page's statement semi-intentionally? They'd have almost certainly have read it.

Precisely this. It's really sad to see the sheer volume of conspiracy-theorizing going on around HN.

Even though this is an actual conspiracy between the government and several large Internet companies?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#265

Post by rustydoorknobs »

louthy wrote: post #208
coldtea wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The implication that there is some central figure behind this giving these companies scripts to read meets the most common flaw of governmental conspiracy theories. It requires the government to be simultaneously incredibly competent and incompetent. Which is exactly what governments are. Extreme resources, very smart people, and very idiot people, incompetent bureaucrats, messy cover-ups, all co-exist, all the tim…

> If you think it matters, I'm afraid, you give the American public too much credit. Not just the American public. This is blanket spying on the people of the world. Now that might sound less problematic for Americans who want to see those pesky terrorists brought to justice, but it also allows the NSA to build up profiles on everyone. US border security is already a nightmare, god knows what they can do with this ki…

Give me a break. Every other country is spying on every other country. Nobody gives a shit if your torrented a movie.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#266

Post by wangii »

1, They got same press release template. 2, they all give govt indirect access to the servers, e.g. ssh. 3, relax, we Chinese have had this since day 1. You think govt can really outsmart determined people?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#267

Post by bambax »

> ... create the safe and free society we all want over the long term

I don't think you can have both. Freedom has to be paid for, and the only currency it'll take is blood. If we're unwilling to pay that price then I guess we won't have freedom.

Also, I'm not sure I'd want freedom regulated by Facebook, where bare breast in centuries old paintings are forbidden or jokes have to pass a censoring committee.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#269

Post by sheri »

slg wrote: post #123
dkulchenko wrote: post #23

Look at the two writeups (Zuckerberg's and Page's) side by side. Each has 4 paragraphs. Each of the pairs of paragraphs addresses the same thing. 1st paragraph: we wanted to respond to these claims. 2nd paragraph: never heard of PRISM, don't give direct access. 3rd paragraph: each request goes through legal channels. 4th paragraph: encourage governments to be more transparent. Terrifying. EDIT: It gets worse. Here's…

The implication that there is some central figure behind this giving these companies scripts to read meets the most common flaw of governmental conspiracy theories. It requires the government to be simultaneously incredibly competent and incompetent. If the NSA was able to keep this project under wraps for so long with the number of people involved, I think they would be smart enough to at least slightly alter the wo…

> The implication that there is some central figure behind this giving these companies scripts to read meets the most common flaw of governmental conspiracy theories.

Isn't that the definition of a government conspiracy?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg addresses PRISM

#270

Post by louthy »

rustydoorknobs wrote: post #265
louthy wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you think it matters, I'm afraid, you give the American public too much credit. Not just the American public. This is blanket spying on the people of the world. Now that might sound less problematic for Americans who want to see those pesky terrorists brought to justice, but it also allows the NSA to build up profiles on everyone. US border security is already a nightmare, god knows what they can do with this ki…

Give me a break. Every other country is spying on every other country. Nobody gives a shit if your torrented a movie.

Oh, so it's all OK then. Thanks for putting my mind at ease. I realise now that blanket collection of data could never be misused in the way I describe because "nobody gives a shit".
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