Live data from Hacker News

White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

theweek.co.uk

31–40 of 95 posts

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#31
post #26

The presentation makes it seem they are harvesting the data. That would resolve any apparent contradiction. The biggest question is how? Surely google has noticed these man in the middle attacks. I think the guardian misinterpreted the word "provider". Edit: it appears the NSA has google's ssl keys. That would explain all the talk about "direct access".

Google could not provide the NSA with its TLS keys and then argue it hadn't given the government direct access to its servers. Nor could the government MITM TLS, which would be detectable, nor could they have compromised a TLS CA to accomplish the same thing, because Google's keys are pinned in Chrome and recent Firefox; you can examine the builds to see that.

> Google could not provide the NSA with its TLS keys and then argue it hadn't given the government direct access to its servers.

Sure it could. First, it would be accurate: TLS keys give you the ability to decrypt communications, which is distinct from direct access to the servers (though, obviously, it can easily substitute for it.) Second, even if it wasn't an accurate distinction, people can (and do) argue positions on unsound bases, and Google doesn't seem to be especially incapacitated in that regard.

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#32
post #25
post #12

Facebook: "We do not provide any government organization with direct access to Facebook servers." Yahoo: "We do not provide the government with direct access to our servers" AOL: "nor do we provide any government agency with access to our servers." Paltalk: "Paltalk does not provide any government agency with direct access to its servers" Apple: "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our serve…

And if they didn't say that, everyone on HN would be whining about why they didn't deny "direct access" when that was the headline accusation. Can't win with you guys.

It's not the phrase "direct access" (which they could reasonably use given it was used in the original leak story), but rather the construction of the whole sentence.

There are millions of ways you could phrase the response (Dropbox and Microsoft used completely different language), the chance that these five came up with the phrasing used independently seems fairly low. Especially as the statements weren't all given to a single reporter (who could have phrased the question in a particular way) but rather to a variety of different news sources.

It could still be completely innocent, they could all have cribbed off whoever did the first denial or they could have discussed it beforehand and co-ordinated messages without there having been any government involvement.

It is however something that needs explaining.

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#33
post #11

Whatever your views on this are, I hope nobody is actually surprised. If I were a $CURRENT_MEDIA_BOOGIEMAN_SCAPEGOAT_THINKOFTHECHILDREN, I would definitely assume that the usgov has access to any "big data" on the general public and can get it anytime they want. My plans for world-domination won't be sent through gmail or sent in a private message on facebook, or an text-msg on VerizoNSA. I'd take the time to learn a…

Ok, but what about companies who store sensitive data and emails on Google Apps for business, especially non US companies ? What about non US citizens who seems to have less protection and spyable at mercy ? Should we the ( whatever your country or citizenship ) avoid by all means US internet corps. If the American gov wanted to kill the cloud, then good job ! I want to clarify that I do not trust my own gov neither…

Nobody should store sensitive data and e-mails on a system where they're sitting there in plain text accessible to god knows how many people at Google and their data centers. That's insane.

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#34
post #25
post #12

Facebook: "We do not provide any government organization with direct access to Facebook servers." Yahoo: "We do not provide the government with direct access to our servers" AOL: "nor do we provide any government agency with access to our servers." Paltalk: "Paltalk does not provide any government agency with direct access to its servers" Apple: "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our serve…

And if they didn't say that, everyone on HN would be whining about why they didn't deny "direct access" when that was the headline accusation. Can't win with you guys.

Are you complaining that they can't win when it comes to the right PR spin on a massive spying program?

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#35
post #12

Facebook: "We do not provide any government organization with direct access to Facebook servers." Yahoo: "We do not provide the government with direct access to our servers" AOL: "nor do we provide any government agency with access to our servers." Paltalk: "Paltalk does not provide any government agency with direct access to its servers" Apple: "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our serve…

Love it how they got played. I hope they appreciate the way the administration let them look and lie their customers in the face.

Wish I had been a fly on the wall when they where instructed on what to say and how to phrase it. It is certainly no accident that they came out on the same day, with the same phrasing, etc

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#36
post #30

To be honest, this whole thing is coordinated. The leak, the opportunity for outrage, the opportunity to gloss over the outrage, and now it's out in the open where the politicians and CEOs don't have to face real outrage. True theater!!!

If they were truly that powerful and organized, wouldn't they have rather just not orchestrated the leak to begin with?

If it's going to come out eventually, why not control the leak?

PR 101, mang

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#37
post #34
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if they didn't say that, everyone on HN would be whining about why they didn't deny "direct access" when that was the headline accusation. Can't win with you guys.

Are you complaining that they can't win when it comes to the right PR spin on a massive spying program?

I think lawdawg is saying there's no reasonable way they can deny participating in a massive spying program without somebody saying it sounds dodgy.

And it is kind of true: "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers" is the clearest construction I can imagine for denying involvement, but they get called out for it anyway.

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#38
post #32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if they didn't say that, everyone on HN would be whining about why they didn't deny "direct access" when that was the headline accusation. Can't win with you guys.

It's not the phrase "direct access" (which they could reasonably use given it was used in the original leak story), but rather the construction of the whole sentence. There are millions of ways you could phrase the response (Dropbox and Microsoft used completely different language), the chance that these five came up with the phrasing used independently seems fairly low. Especially as the statements weren't all given…

> they could have discussed it beforehand and co-ordinated messages without there having been any government involvement

These are after all companies several (all?) of whom have co-ordinated illegal no-hire compacts in the past: it's not far-fetched to think they'd work together on a PR response to this. Which isn't necessarily to rule out a more sinister explanation of course.

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#39
post #35
post #12

Facebook: "We do not provide any government organization with direct access to Facebook servers." Yahoo: "We do not provide the government with direct access to our servers" AOL: "nor do we provide any government agency with access to our servers." Paltalk: "Paltalk does not provide any government agency with direct access to its servers" Apple: "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our serve…

Love it how they got played. I hope they appreciate the way the administration let them look and lie their customers in the face. Wish I had been a fly on the wall when they where instructed on what to say and how to phrase it. It is certainly no accident that they came out on the same day, with the same phrasing, etc

You're supposed to love it and feel clever. Meanwhile the machine marches on.

Re: White House admits it has 'access' to Facebook, Google

#40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but what about companies who store sensitive data and emails on Google Apps for business, especially non US companies ? What about non US citizens who seems to have less protection and spyable at mercy ? Should we the ( whatever your country or citizenship ) avoid by all means US internet corps. If the American gov wanted to kill the cloud, then good job ! I want to clarify that I do not trust my own gov neither…

Nobody should store sensitive data and e-mails on a system where they're sitting there in plain text accessible to god knows how many people at Google and their data centers. That's insane.

As Microsoft was the first company to adhere PRISM as stated by the leaked slide, that also means that no company worldwide should ever use office 365, azure or managed sharepoint / exchange !

These software corps better be persuasive because a whole economic part of USA will be endangered then !

Post reply on HN