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Larry Page addresses PRISM

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Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#321

Post by HoochTHX »

ralfd wrote: post #248
Nelson69 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's become very clear is that there is a lot of careful parsing going on. Careful parsing of the constitution, careful parsing of various laws, very very careful interpretation of the words on the page. Does Google give anyone, any company, any entity, anyone at all direct access to their data? They've specifically excluded NSA. Does NSA subcontract that to Booz Allen Hamilton? Google claims that no government has…

Did you read Larry's blog post? He didn't rule out the NSA, he did rule out the USgovernment period. Quote: > Indeed, the U.S. government does not have direct access or a “back door” to the information stored in our data centers.

And yet this still misses more important issues. While it is fantastic that Google does not give the USG a free pass to the whole enchilada, Google still collects and stores this data, and gives it when compelled, if they truly had the users best interests in mind they would reduce the data collected to only what they MUST have to do what they do, and not use Vacuum cleaner like methods to get and keep everything they can, if Google did not keep it, the USG would not want it. So the best way for Google to be a part of the solution would be to reduce what they intake and keep, burn the rest.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#322

Post by CoryG89 »

This just looks like it was crafted from the same template as Mark Zuckerberg's response! Very worrying coming from Page and Zuckerberg, (and I hear other CEOs) like this at the exact same time. I just hope there really isn't a man behind the curtain pulling the strings of such powerful figures in technology today.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#323

Post by ig1 »

chrisacky wrote: post #4

I can't understand the repeated use of "direct access". It's the kind of language a lawyer would use to qualify a patent clause. - We do not provide direct access to our servers. - We do not provide direct access nor is there a backdoor. - O, but we do still pipe all of your data to external NSA servers. Every company named (I'm not just picking on Google here) has come out with the same overarching statement. "We do…

The term direct access was first used by the Guardian in their original story: "but the Prism program allows the intelligence services direct access to the companies' servers." - most of the early denials (where the companies presumably hadn't read the article) didn't include the phrase but the later ones did.

So it's reasonable to suppose that the article was the source of that phrase.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#324

Post by silenteh »

rsingel wrote: post #266
Dove wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until this week’s reports, we had never heard of the broad type of order that Verizon received—an order that appears to have required them to hand over millions of users’ call records. We were very surprised to learn that such broad orders exist. Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale is completely false. I'm not sure how much more strongly you'd like t…

There's 2 different things going on, under different legal authorities and Google is confusing them. Verizon was given a Patriot Act order for business records, metadata; no names; no content, but all citizens or foreigner. Google and other tech companies are said to have gotten orders under section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. That allows the government to compel communications companies to furnish lots o…

Unless I am mistaken US and most European countries are based on Democracy. Wikipedia defines Democracy as a form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Granted, wikipedia is not the oracle but it gives a good definition in my opinion. Does, the gathering of my personal data, affect my life ? Well in my personal opinion it does, therefore I should be informed about it.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#325

Post by lazyjones »

So the gmail access given to government agencies, that allegedly enabled the Chinese to hack it in 2010 - as reported by CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.ha...) was just a figment of Bruce Schneier's imagination?

Or was it just "indirect access", as in via some other company?

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#326

Post by zmmmmm »

chime wrote: post #63

I don't want any more fluff "no direct access" emails. I just want these questions to be answered with a YES/NO: 1. Is there any way that someone outside of Google, can get a copy of an email I sent from my gmail to my own gmail, without a warrant that specifies my exact gmail address? 2. If I delete my Google search history, is there any way for anyone to access this history, with or without a warrant? 3. If I make…

You're asking very broad questions with only negative (ie: unprovable) answers. I don't think any company could ever say there is "no" way anybody can every get your search history after you delete it.They don't immediately run out and shred all the hard drives storing your data every time you delete something. Data would always be recoverable with some extreme amount of effort.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#327

Post by kahirsch »

rsingel wrote: post #266
Dove wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until this week’s reports, we had never heard of the broad type of order that Verizon received—an order that appears to have required them to hand over millions of users’ call records. We were very surprised to learn that such broad orders exist. Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale is completely false. I'm not sure how much more strongly you'd like t…

There's 2 different things going on, under different legal authorities and Google is confusing them. Verizon was given a Patriot Act order for business records, metadata; no names; no content, but all citizens or foreigner. Google and other tech companies are said to have gotten orders under section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. That allows the government to compel communications companies to furnish lots o…

> Verizon was given a Patriot Act order for business records, metadata; no names; no content, but all citizens or foreigner.

No, it was a FISA order: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/veri...

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#328

Post by kalkin »

rayiner wrote: post #316
kalkin wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You don't think of information in your Gmail or Google Drive as personal "papers or effects"? Would you be fine with a Google employee reading through your email or your spreadsheets in order to figure out whether you were working on a product that might compete with one of Google's, or maybe because they ran across your profile on a dating site and wanted to check up on you? If so, I think you're unusual. In…

> Would you be fine with a Google employee reading through your email or your spreadsheets in order to figure out whether you were working on a product that might compete with one of Google's, or maybe because they ran across your profile on a dating site and wanted to check up on you? Wouldn't I be pretty stupid if I had a problem with these things, yet still uploaded these documents in clear text to Google's server…

We routinely rely on social codes rather than technology to protect our privacy (as well as our property and lives). There's nothing physically preventing my building super from using her key to go into my apartment and look through or steal all my stuff, but I'd be upset if it happened. What's more, 99.9% of Google's users are in no position to evaluate the cryptographic security, or lack thereof, of their documents. Finally, Google has actually said no humans read your email, in response to that Microsoft campaign. So no, hypothetical you wouldn't be stupid, and you are wrong to imply that the millions of Google users who would have a problem with those things are being stupid now. Making a series of decisions that we will at some point regret, perhaps, but your condescension is unwarranted.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#329

Post by gibsonf1 »

Dove wrote: post #284
rsingel wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's 2 different things going on, under different legal authorities and Google is confusing them. Verizon was given a Patriot Act order for business records, metadata; no names; no content, but all citizens or foreigner. Google and other tech companies are said to have gotten orders under section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. That allows the government to compel communications companies to furnish lots o…

I don't buy it. What I quoted above doesn't say anything about US persons or non-US persons, about content or metadata, about this law or that one. It just says, Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale is completely false. Now, Page may well be lying , but he definitely isn't weaseling. I'm pretty sure that denial covers both of the possibilities you're…

The key issue here is that Google and the other companies may have no idea this is going on. My read is that the NSA has managed to gain access to the data centers either through inside help, spy craft, hardware/router back doors, or some other means we have no idea about.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#330

Post by xenophanes »

Dove wrote: post #284
rsingel wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's 2 different things going on, under different legal authorities and Google is confusing them. Verizon was given a Patriot Act order for business records, metadata; no names; no content, but all citizens or foreigner. Google and other tech companies are said to have gotten orders under section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. That allows the government to compel communications companies to furnish lots o…

I don't buy it. What I quoted above doesn't say anything about US persons or non-US persons, about content or metadata, about this law or that one. It just says, Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale is completely false. Now, Page may well be lying , but he definitely isn't weaseling. I'm pretty sure that denial covers both of the possibilities you're…

Of course it's weaseling. Maybe they disclosed such information on a slightly lesser scale. That passage doesn't say.

They all said stuff about "direct access", without discussing what would and wouldn't qualify as "indirect". They didn't deny doing all kinds of different access that could be called indirect in some way.

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