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Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

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Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#301
post #36

"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up,…

I believe Carlin's point generally holds in light of http://www.urbanarchipelago.com/:

"It's the cities, Stupid."

Look at Facebook, for instance. I'm seeing splinter social networks that generally rip off its UI so they can develop their special interest via their particular domain name. Let's look at a pessimistic utopia where Developer == Plumber: everything eventually becomes decentralized because of the dividing and conquering of the digital laborer. In an optimistic utopia where Developer == Artisan: everything eventually becomes decentralized because each small team or developer group manages some autonomous function of digital society.

None of this national stuff really matters unless we're talking about a Nation-state divided. In which cases, we're talking the worst case scenario, and any pretense that rational debate will absolve these architectural problems of "the State" fails to acknowledge the already unfit architecture of the State, wherein direct action is necessary.

'The unfitness of the object may cause one to overlook the unfitness of the means.'

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#302
post #36

"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up,…

I vote.

Nobody I've voted for in a Federal election has ever won that election. I often vote for third-party candidates with the knowledge that they have as good as zero chance of winning, but sometimes I vote for major-party candidates who seem mostly reasonable. None of them have ever won either.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#303
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Carlin is (was) a right fool. The whole problem is that people don't have enough control over the government. Not voting only allows those who would have control over you to have more power. Even a protest vote or a third party vote is worth more than no vote.

Is it the case that people don't have enough control over the government? As far as I can tell, we have exactly the government we want, or at least exactly the government you might expect to get in a compromise between rural middle America, suburbanites, christian conservatives, and urban yuppies. The people who strongly oppose the security measures taken after 9/11 are in the minority. They were part of Obama's coal…

a compromise between rural middle America, suburbanites, christian conservatives, and urban yuppies

Left out a few parties there ray. What about the military-industrial complex? Don't they get a vote? (Maybe two or three?) What about all of those whose paychecks appear magically from "black" appropriations? How about LEOs? Are they not voting now? That would be a pretty sizable class to which to deny the franchise. You think the people who make house payments based on subverting the general welfare of the nation might be a bit more focused on what horrible program they can impose next than is "rural middle America"?

"Let's be clear" though. The current embarrassment is a paragon of "democracy".

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#304
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Carlin is (was) a right fool. The whole problem is that people don't have enough control over the government. Not voting only allows those who would have control over you to have more power. Even a protest vote or a third party vote is worth more than no vote.

Is it the case that people don't have enough control over the government? As far as I can tell, we have exactly the government we want, or at least exactly the government you might expect to get in a compromise between rural middle America, suburbanites, christian conservatives, and urban yuppies. The people who strongly oppose the security measures taken after 9/11 are in the minority. They were part of Obama's coal…

[deleted]

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#305
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. You are not solving the problem you just ignoring it. And I am not sure what's worse...

He doesn't say he is solving the problem. He merely says that he removes personal responsibility for the problem.

But it doesn't though. It's not like _not voting_ is doing anything to change the system. You're not legally required to vote, so even by just staying home, you're still part of the system. You're still a part of the game, even on the sidelines.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if he's speaking to a cult. Might as well have said something along the lines of "Obama is the savior of the US. Let him into your heart and soul and you will know it to be true. Go forth and vote!"

Wait.. are you being sarcastic or you really don't realize that Obama was making a joke when he said that? I remember when he said it and certain media outlets sort of went crazy - but the audience just laughed.

He's making the same joke for years now. Not everybody thinks it's still funny though.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if he's speaking to a cult. Might as well have said something along the lines of "Obama is the savior of the US. Let him into your heart and soul and you will know it to be true. Go forth and vote!"

Wait.. are you being sarcastic or you really don't realize that Obama was making a joke when he said that? I remember when he said it and certain media outlets sort of went crazy - but the audience just laughed.

He's making the same joke for years now. Not everybody thinks it's still funny though.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if he's speaking to a cult. Might as well have said something along the lines of "Obama is the savior of the US. Let him into your heart and soul and you will know it to be true. Go forth and vote!"

Wait.. are you being sarcastic or you really don't realize that Obama was making a joke when he said that? I remember when he said it and certain media outlets sort of went crazy - but the audience just laughed.

He's making the same joke for years now. Not everybody thinks it's still funny though.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#310
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as if the average individual government employee has the ability to spawn black helicopters or deploy police assets just to settle a neighborhood rivalry. If anything they have less actual power than a corporate drone nowadays (just ask the bankers). Teenagers have killed themselves over stuff posted to Facebook so I wish people would quit acting like the government is really that much more directly importan…

If you believe Obama, regular IRS employees can harass organizations and individuals they don't like.

Someone has already fallen on their sword for that, with more sure to follow. This isn't really a great example of Obama condoning poor behavior by public servants.
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