Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not is the case where resources are found under said land or the land is farm land.
Where is there farm land which is anywhere near as expensive as building a warehouse or data center? And where there's low population density? The cost of farm land seems to be around $9000/acre, and certainly under $20,000/acre. The major exceptions are places like Sonoma County, where vineyards are still profitable even though the land can go for $100,000/acre. But this is also a place where there's high population…
Stellar Wind (code name)
161–170 of 175 posts
Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
The mythos of Room 641A is troubling as it relies on the idea that spying at 10 or 20 such sites across a handful of providers actually sees enough internet traffic to build a useful picture of US internet activities. AT&T is just one of ~15 Tier 1 providers, never mind large number of tier 2 providers that carry the majority of internet traffic. There would need to be 1-10 such rooms in every NFL city and metro area…
Your expert analysis flies directly in the face of the testimony of former NSA analyst turned whistleblower William Binney. Given he wrote the software that underlies Stellar Wind, I'm going to go with his assessment of the situation. His claim is that Stellar Wind was originally designed specifically for foreign intelligence gathering, then repurposed by the NSA to do domestic spying. Domestic spying was his motivat…
The fact that a program has the capability to process certain information does not have any bering on whether or not the information is actually capable of being collected and delivered to the program.
I guess it depends on how broadly one defines "all the Internet traffic they can get their hands on". I'm saying they can't get their hands on that much, and what they can, based on the reported locations of other intercept rooms, could be legitimately foreign traffic at points where foreign providers peer.
So far as tapping any significant portion of US internet traffic goes, a large portion of the entities on this list: ftp://ftp.arin.net/info/asn.txt would have to be in on it.
Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your expert analysis flies directly in the face of the testimony of former NSA analyst turned whistleblower William Binney. Given he wrote the software that underlies Stellar Wind, I'm going to go with his assessment of the situation. His claim is that Stellar Wind was originally designed specifically for foreign intelligence gathering, then repurposed by the NSA to do domestic spying. Domestic spying was his motivat…
Binney wrote worked on ThinThread which was a competitor to Trailblazer which is reportedly the software behind Stellar Wind. None of the public information that I've seen says he had any role in the deployment of Trailblazer. The fact that a program has the capability to process certain information does not have any bering on whether or not the information is actually capable of being collected and delivered to the…
Actually, going by 10-20 sites I'd put my money on spying
on non-US Tier 1 provider traffic.
If you really believe that, why do you think Binney risked his entire livelihood to reveal what he believed to be a domestic spying program?Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
the "checks and balances" we so hold dear in democracy are now null and void. Well, there's one check / balance aspect that is still "in play" at least in theory: the 2nd Amendment.
2nd Amendment is probably the check and balance with the least potential efficacy these days -- pro-gun supporters who tout right to bear arms to protect against government tyranny are living a fantasy. Realistically there is 0 chance an armed citizenry rising against the establishment would pose any threat to them -- the cards (and methods of control) are stacked wildly in their favor.
Presumably you are aware of the Iraq and Afghan insurgencies.
Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup. I would be very wary of any article claiming that a religious group is preferred by a government because of their righteous lifestyle. It's just so many more opportunities for blackmail. You'd have to screen those candidates so carefully, and you couldn't even do the usual thing of asking their family, friends, neighbours etc, because these are precisely the people they are hiding their quirks from. If you have…
I'm a Mormon though not from Utah. You still need to understand the Mormon culture and church more so. I'm not sure what you mean by being excluded (Excommunicated, shunned, offended?) isn't absolute, in fact, no one really is excluded from the church as all are forever welcome (Some extreme edge cases aside) back. This is in an ideal situation and I know that in some locations that maybe a local leader or some local…
You're presuming that non-heterosexual mormons are able to just "turn that off" easily, without fail. There are numerous examples of either religious leaders or conservative political leaders engaging in same sex activity to imply that this is not possible.
Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where is there farm land which is anywhere near as expensive as building a warehouse or data center? And where there's low population density? The cost of farm land seems to be around $9000/acre, and certainly under $20,000/acre. The major exceptions are places like Sonoma County, where vineyards are still profitable even though the land can go for $100,000/acre. But this is also a place where there's high population…
We are comparing cost of land, not cost of building stuff on the land.
Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#167My brother worked for years in the intelligence community. One of the common stereotypes within the IC regards the fact that Mormons are heavily overrepresented, for various reasons that involve foreign language skills from mission trips, a reputation for respecting authority, abstinence from drugs/alcohol, family connections, ease of gaining security clearances, etc. The stereotype in the IC regarding Mormons is the…
I'll go ahead and contribute to this discussion, since, well, I'm a Mormon. I was a little bit shocked to see this be the top comment. I served a mission in eastern Ukraine (Донецк, Харьков) from 2008-2010 and there learned to speak Russian fluently. Since returning home I've had probably a half dozen offers to work for the FBI or other government offices. Every now and then the highest level Russian classes at BYU w…
When I hear "shocked", it makes me think that you think my comment is prejudiced in some way, or is perhaps making a wrong judgement on motivations for locating a data center.
Anyone who thinks there wasn't a big "there's plenty of Mormons there to recruit for the job" factor in the decision is kidding themselves. Cheap land can be found in virtually every part of the country. There are tons of tech workers in Colorado, Arizona, Alabama (Huntsville), Texas (Austin/San Antonio metro area), etc. All of these places have super cheap land.
Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Binney wrote worked on ThinThread which was a competitor to Trailblazer which is reportedly the software behind Stellar Wind. None of the public information that I've seen says he had any role in the deployment of Trailblazer. The fact that a program has the capability to process certain information does not have any bering on whether or not the information is actually capable of being collected and delivered to the…
You claimed: Actually, going by 10-20 sites I'd put my money on spying on non-US Tier 1 provider traffic. If you really believe that, why do you think Binney risked his entire livelihood to reveal what he believed to be a domestic spying program?
Based on what you'd have to do to capture foreign traffic as opposed to US traffic it makes sense that the Room 641A sites are intended to capture foreign traffic. All the public information supports this. There isn't any public disclosure of the type of infrastructure needed to comprehensively monitor US IP traffic.
If they are trying to capture foreign IP traffic there would need to be a intercept device where the foreign network interconnects with the US networks and where cables land. Large foreign providers tend to have 20 or fewer IP POPs in the US clustered in the same places. Look at networks maps from Tata, ReTN, NTT, etc. You will see many of the same locations. To tap them you'd put a intercept site in Seattle, Bay Area, Chicago, Miami, New York, and Virginia. Maybe Atlanta & Texas.
By the nature of the internet US traffic would get caught in that. E.g. ReTN had too much inbound traffic so they sold a college in Chicago some cheap outbound traffic. Now ReTN loses a router and their peering goes down so the bits to that college get hauled out to Europe and back. Bits just got captured. ThinThread (Binney's program) reportedly accounted for that and would mask US person PII pending a court order to decrypt it.
The fact that Trailblazer doesn't mask PII is a issue, but both programs would have captured US person PII, the difference is the addition of a bureaucratic hoop that the current and past administration would order jumped in a heartbeat. It isn't like ThinThread required a FISA Judge to walk over with a crypto token and descramble the data.
The nature of the problem means some US traffic will be caught but that does not make it a domestic spying program.
Unlike many other countries with a domestic internet surveillance regime (Syria, Egypt, Iran just to name a few) the US does not mandate that traffic pass through the national carrier or otherwise limit connections within its borders. Syria can drop in a few Blue Coat boxes and catch everything. In the US you'd need thousands, if not tens of thousands of intercept devices -- one or more for every edge in the graph of ASs (http://www.caida.org/research/topology/as_core_network/). It is not a insurmountable problem but it would take a act of Congress (likely challenged to the Supreme Court) and the cooperation of a lot of people to implement. It would not happen overnight or in secret.
Now, US providers are required to support CALEA but that is targeted at individual subscribers and most manufacturer implementations aren't suited to wholesale spying.
This isn't to say 641A sites couldn't work in hand with CALEA, just that it would be a bit more legit than "omg nsa taps all the wires". E.g. 641A could be watching traffic to/from a Jihadi site hosted in France without a court order under the Protect America Act of 2007. NSA notes someone from a US IP has been posting things that indicate radicalization. NSA passes it to FBI to check out. FBI gets a court order for a CALEA tap for the US IP. FBI sends order for tap to ISP. No wholesale tapping of US traffic is necessary. Of course in this example watching anything to/from the US without a FISA order is likely not kosher prior to PAA hence the warrantless surveillance controversy.
When fearmongering over home-grown lone wolf terrorism get louder, that's when the real trouble starts (except they probably have all the info needed for that over the counter from TransUnion etc).
Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
We are comparing cost of land, not cost of building stuff on the land.
Certainly. My point is that the cost of farm land in non-populated areas is minor.
Re: Stellar Wind (code name)
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
You claimed: Actually, going by 10-20 sites I'd put my money on spying on non-US Tier 1 provider traffic. If you really believe that, why do you think Binney risked his entire livelihood to reveal what he believed to be a domestic spying program?
I don't need to think anything about Binney's motives to reason about the possible scope of surveillance on IP traffic. Based on what you'd have to do to capture foreign traffic as opposed to US traffic it makes sense that the Room 641A sites are intended to capture foreign traffic. All the public information supports this. There isn't any public disclosure of the type of infrastructure needed to comprehensively moni…
And what are your credentials, exactly? Did you work for the NSA? Is there some reason I should believe you over an NSA whistleblower? As far as I can tell you're just guessing, and your guesses disagree with someone with insider knowledge.