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Larry Page addresses PRISM

googleblog.blogspot.com

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Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#41

Post by danso »

chrisacky wrote: post #4

I can't understand the repeated use of "direct access". It's the kind of language a lawyer would use to qualify a patent clause. - We do not provide direct access to our servers. - We do not provide direct access nor is there a backdoor. - O, but we do still pipe all of your data to external NSA servers. Every company named (I'm not just picking on Google here) has come out with the same overarching statement. "We do…

OK, in an alternate reality, what would a clear, flat-out denial look like? I mean, how could we tell such a thing differently than what was in the OP?

First, we have not joined any program that would give the U.S. government—or any other government—direct access to our servers. Indeed, the U.S. government does not have direct access or a “back door” to the information stored in our data centers. We had not heard of a program called PRISM until yesterday...Press reports that suggest that Google is providing open-ended access to our users’ data are false, period. Until this week’s reports, we had never heard of the broad type of order that Verizon received—an order that appears to have required them to hand over millions of users’ call records.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#42

Post by adamdavis »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #20
tsunamifury wrote: post #6

When I worked IT for a medium sized university we were asked by the DOJ to install switches that copied all internet traffic directly to an unspecified government server. We were told all ISPs (anyone providing internet to more than 100 persons) were told to do this as well. We refused to comply obviously as the request was absurd, but in the small print of the request we were told we were not allowed to speak of the…

Please throw out an estimate of how big you think a mirror of all Google's network traffic might be.

And this is relevant to what?

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#43

Post by kahirsch »

I am going to guess that PRISM is a system which receives and parses the data files from those companies that are produced as a result of warrants/subpoenas/national security letters. So the excerpt from the NSA document that the Washington Post gave—"Collection directly from the servers of these U.S. Service Providers: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple" — may refer only to some kind of secure file transfer (private circuit with NSA hardware encryption, maybe).

It's just a guess, but it could fit with the relatively low cost figure given ($20 Million).

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#44

Post by hammerzeit »

One thing I'd think about: If Google is lying or misrepresenting the truth here, then it would be phenomenally foolish to put out a denial under Larry's name as it just did.

Specifically, the personal integrity of the founders -- especially vis-a-vis these kinds of issues -- is one of the bedrocks of Google's culture. If a statement like this was proven out to be a deliberate misrepresentation (even if not an outright lie) it would cause IMO severe harm to Google morale.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#45

Post by mullingitover »

deelowe wrote: post #26

Why is everyone so suspicious of Google to begin with? Is there a shred of evidence to lend any credibility to the accusations thus far? Given how Google's technology works, I imagine it would be quite an expense to provide the kind of access the govt. would want and Google hasn't been exactly overly enthused with having to comply with BS government requests(e.g. see how they deal with requests to scrub search result…

The President getting on national television and acknowledging that the program exists is a pretty big shred of evidence.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#46

Post by unreal37 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #15
packetslave wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the blog post. "Press reports that suggest that Google is providing open-ended access to our users’ data are false, period"

Which is still pretty flexible language. "Oh, it's not open-ended access, it's limited to the conditions in the authorization..." The Verizon order was limited to 3 months, for example, which is hardly open-ended... except that it presumably got re-upped every three months.

No, its pretty clearly written to me. Larry Page is genuinely surprised that this program thinks it has access to Google data on demand.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#47

Post by javert »

unreal37 wrote: post #31
chrisacky wrote: post #4

I can't understand the repeated use of "direct access". It's the kind of language a lawyer would use to qualify a patent clause. - We do not provide direct access to our servers. - We do not provide direct access nor is there a backdoor. - O, but we do still pipe all of your data to external NSA servers. Every company named (I'm not just picking on Google here) has come out with the same overarching statement. "We do…

I believe Google on this. The language is clear and non-weasel-y. Google does not hand over user data to the government unless specifically requested. There is no open-ended access. But I also believe the government works with ISP's (all major ISPs) so that they can intercept traffic. Which would be a type of MITM attack allowing them to get data from all major web sites.

I think it's completely weaselly. It leaves wide open the possibility that a 3rd party, like Palantir, has access to the data.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#48

Post by necubi »

For all those complaining about the language of this and other denials, what could possibly satisfy you? This seems as blanket as possible.

"Second, we provide user data to governments only in accordance with the law. Our legal team reviews each and every request, and frequently pushes back when requests are overly broad or don’t follow the correct process."

"We were very surprised to learn that such broad orders exist. Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale [as of the Verizon order] is completely false."

Finally, NSLs cannot compel an organization to lie like this, and doing so would be very legally dangerous for Google.

It's amazing how little critical thinking HN does when we see something that confirms our beliefs.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#49

Post by rosser »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #20
tsunamifury wrote: post #6

When I worked IT for a medium sized university we were asked by the DOJ to install switches that copied all internet traffic directly to an unspecified government server. We were told all ISPs (anyone providing internet to more than 100 persons) were told to do this as well. We refused to comply obviously as the request was absurd, but in the small print of the request we were told we were not allowed to speak of the…

Please throw out an estimate of how big you think a mirror of all Google's network traffic might be.

The NSA's Utah data center was designed to host more storage than existed on the entire planet at the time. Sheer volume of data is among the least of their concerns.

Re: Larry Page addresses PRISM

#50

Post by ImprovedSilence »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #20
tsunamifury wrote: post #6

When I worked IT for a medium sized university we were asked by the DOJ to install switches that copied all internet traffic directly to an unspecified government server. We were told all ISPs (anyone providing internet to more than 100 persons) were told to do this as well. We refused to comply obviously as the request was absurd, but in the small print of the request we were told we were not allowed to speak of the…

Please throw out an estimate of how big you think a mirror of all Google's network traffic might be.

the social "who's talking to who, and what sites did they visit" information... oh, probably this big -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
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