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Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

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Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#71
When thinking about the end game of NSA surveillance it is useful to think of the NSA as a tech company with no need to be profitable, almost no legal constraints, the best connections to the biggest corporations (enforced by the power of law with the urgency of national security) and de facto unlimited funds for hardware and top talent.

Total information awareness is their goal, and they will succeed.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#72
post #64
post #36

"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up,…

George Carlin is (was) a right fool. The whole problem is that people don't have enough control over the government. Not voting only allows those who would have control over you to have more power. Even a protest vote or a third party vote is worth more than no vote.

> Even a protest vote or a third party vote is worth more than no vote.

Actually, it's not. The US election process operates under the Electoral College[1], so a state majority vote changes all votes to that majority vote (eg: Democrats win majority in Illinois, so all votes in that state end up voting for Democrats in the presidential election).

The disparity between the electoral vote and the popular vote is usually not wide enough to cause controversy, however it's still offensive to realize that your vote changes without your consent.

Gerrymandering[2] is a whole different topic, however it is just as galling.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#73
post #48
post #23

Did anyone really believe him?

Apparently more than half of the voting population of the US. And most of the media. A ton of bloggers. Maybe Europe.

Or they made what they thought was the best choice among the only two viable choices.

The biggest problem in the US, maybe the world, is that we don't have instant run-off voting to allow competition in federal gov't. We're trapped by this one oversight of the Founding Fathers.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#74

Chhi... Compare it with the words and deeds of Abraham Lincoln 250 years ago: "If slavery isn't wrong, then nothing is wrong." [1][2] There is a stark change in quality of leaders available today. There is so little correlation between words spoken and execution. [1] http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/trt027.html [2] http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/ltoh1.jpg

That resulted in Civil War, unconstitutionally suspending Habeas Corpus, and then the assassination of the President. I can't imagine why we don't see bold words like that anymore.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#75

Here is the rub, if government does nothing and we get attacked people will complain. If government steps up and works to prevent an attack, people complain. Where is the balance?

The balance is addressing the causes of attacks, not the symptoms.

Foreign policy is the real issue here.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#76
post #36

"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up,…

Great, so he has solved his own problem of feeling responsible for what politicians do if he elects them. Now the only problem left is what politicians do.

Re: Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me (2008)

#77
post #36

"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up,…

I think people are taking his words too literally. Carlin was both brilliant and a comedian. Sometimes his point isn't directly in the words he uses.
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