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Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

andrewkelley.me

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Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#31

Post by simias »

Pxtl wrote: post #4

... while it's not really useful for the NES, which is so old that emulating it does not strain even the crudest modern processor, I'd be excited to see this technique applied to newer consoles for lightweight mobile processors.

I think it might actually work better for more modern hardware. Less handcrafted ASM tricks, much more regular (compiler generated) machine code. And of course no self-modifying code that would be extremely difficult to recompile correctly.

Modern hardware (GPU, sound cards,...) is also very similar to what you find on a PC so it would be more straightforward to port all this code. No messing around with the framebuffer mid-scanline to create a cool effect, no quirky special purpose hardware for very specific tasks.

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#32

Post by dschiptsov »

What is amazing here is not the techy stuff, but productivity and clear understanding of concepts. Of course, such shape (of mind) comes from years of daily practice. That's why I know I will never write anything good - I didn't spend enough time practicing. Practice leads to perfection (not reading HN).

And look, the guy is not using any IDE or proprietary tools - just a terminal window and command line (what a horror!) tools. Looks like they are good enough..)

All that 9-to-5 Java coders should at least commit suicide.) More seriously - this is very clear illustration for startup founders of what a huge gap lies between mediocre and a top performer.

Convincing a top performer(s) to work for you is the real secret of a successful startup. Even pg (god forbid!) could be not so successful without rtm.))

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#33

Post by steveklabnik »

tibbon wrote: post #17

This is amazing. Also, this is the Dark Magic of programming that I don't think I'll 100% grok in 20 years, but its good to try! edit: now that I think of it, I really need to keep expanding my knowledge. I'm going to go through this post in my terminal and try to at least make the stuff work, so I can start understanding this process. I've been trying to learn Go and C better anyway. Thanks for providing a ground to…

I was about to write something telling you to not be so hard on yourself, but your edit is in the right place!

The only thing stopping you from learning 'dark magic' is your willingness to put time, study, and asking others about it. If you want to learn, just keep pushing forward.

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#34

Post by lucian1900 »

darkf wrote: post #28
lucian1900 wrote: post #25

There is some research on this http://www.pagetable.com/docs/libcpu/26C3-libcpu.pdf It's a very interesting topic. It may be our best chance at preserving software.

It's really unfortunate that libcpu didn't take off. Last I checked, they got nowhere with no contributors, and now their site 503s. It was an interesting project.

I think it's more than that. It is not yet clear that this approach can work in the general case without emulation: the halting problem may be in the way.

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#35

Post by drbawb »

simias wrote: post #31
Pxtl wrote: post #4

... while it's not really useful for the NES, which is so old that emulating it does not strain even the crudest modern processor, I'd be excited to see this technique applied to newer consoles for lightweight mobile processors.

I think it might actually work better for more modern hardware. Less handcrafted ASM tricks, much more regular (compiler generated) machine code. And of course no self-modifying code that would be extremely difficult to recompile correctly. Modern hardware (GPU, sound cards,...) is also very similar to what you find on a PC so it would be more straightforward to port all this code. No messing around with the framebuf…

The other interesting thing about older hardware is that each cart could embed special hardware that the NES could take advantage of. To play those games: that extra hardware has to be emulated as well.

So far as I know: this is unheard of with current gen consoles.

The most recent example I can think of is for a handheld console. The Pokemon Walker that was bundled with the newer Pokemon games for the Nintendo DS; which I believe has the IR hardware embedded in the cart itself.

So in addition to worrying about rather interesting use of the stock hardware, you also have to consider interesting use of _secondary_ hardware.

---

The latest batch of consoles [Xbox One, PS4] look to be x86 PCs with high-bandwidth memory; if that's the case, I'm hoping PC ports are more common, and perhaps we'll even see a virtualization based approach to running next gen games on standard PC hardware.

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#36

Post by CountHackulus »

I seem to remember someone doing this for the original xbox and getting up to the halo "start game" screen. That was probably easier due to it being roughly the same architecture. This is something else quite different and really neat.

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#37

Post by acdha »

quux wrote: post #14

This is interesting. If this project can output LLVM byte code, then you could also codegen to javascript with emscripten and make a web based version of a NES game.

See also https://github.com/jsmess/jsmess which is a port of an existing emulator codebase using emscripten

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#38

Post by QEDturtles »

I've been meaning to port some classic games over and utilize better input methods for a while. It would be fun to be able to load old GB games on my Android phone and tap the menus instead of navigating them with the DPad. Thanks for this, I was looking for something to do with my Friday night!

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#39

Post by tharshan09 »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #27

This is one of the best technical articles I've seen in a long long time congratulations. I won't go and pretend I understand what is really going on but the writing style is excellent, to the point and the general flow and formatting are a pleasure. Props dude.

I agree. Really well laid out, easy to understand for lay person without using too much technical jargon. I enjoyed the long code pastes; rather than a github repo link.

Re: Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go

#40

Post by leehro »

This was fantastic, thank you.

Static recompilation seemed like an obvious solution to emulating games in theory, but it was fascinating to see just what it would take. Also loved to read about the clever tricks from 30 years ago and how we can or can't deal with them.

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