Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

President Obama’s Dragnet

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 141 posts

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#81

Post by caseysoftware »

Everlag wrote: post #56
pvnick wrote: post #30

Said Jim Sensenbrenner, who introduced the Patriot Act : “As the author of the Patriot Act, I am extremely troubled by the F.B.I.’s interpretation of this legislation,” he said in a statement. “While I believe the Patriot Act appropriately balanced national security concerns and civil rights, I have always worried about potential abuses.” He added: “Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive an…

When the fellow who introduced the Patriot act goes against something in the name of American privacy you know you've crossed the line that is political suicide. And they don't have a 9/11 as an excuse this time.

Yes, absolute political suicide. That Obama guy will never be elected to any office ever again!

Oh, wait..

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#82

Post by anigbrowl »

Everlag wrote: post #56
pvnick wrote: post #30

Said Jim Sensenbrenner, who introduced the Patriot Act : “As the author of the Patriot Act, I am extremely troubled by the F.B.I.’s interpretation of this legislation,” he said in a statement. “While I believe the Patriot Act appropriately balanced national security concerns and civil rights, I have always worried about potential abuses.” He added: “Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive an…

When the fellow who introduced the Patriot act goes against something in the name of American privacy you know you've crossed the line that is political suicide. And they don't have a 9/11 as an excuse this time.

You're assuming a degree of intellectual and ethical consistency which I am extremely reluctant to ascribe to a sitting legislator.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#83

Post by angersock »

jurassic wrote: post #65

> The administration has now lost all credibility on this issue. Yes. Fuck you Mr. Obama, Mr. Bush, and everyone who ever voted for the PATRIOT Act. Failed promises on Gitmo, mideast conflicts, drone murders, and civil liberties/domestic spying. I hope they impeach him for failing to uphold the Constitution. I'm cynical, so I suspected this was probably happening all along. But my anger over this is still white hot.…

Did you vote for Ron Paul or one of the minority parties, or were you complicit in this farce?

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#84

Post by sneak »

abduhl wrote: post #29
sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

I enjoy these type of comments. They mostly come from Americans who have never looked into the requirements to "leave" legally. It turns out the rest of the world has immigration laws that are just as strict or more strict than America's so unless you're young and you're filthy rich, in a very specialized field that country needs, or ridiculously good looking you're probably not welcome in country X.

I emigrated five years ago. It's tough, no fuckin' foolin'.

The alternative is to go to bed every night knowing that a double-digit percentage of your value and productivity that day went to fund building bombs and buying and installing fiber splitters.

I just couldn't do it any longer.

FWIW, I have none of those circumstances you describe, and it was relatively easy, practically speaking— and I moved to Germany, one of the best places on Earth to live. The hard part was leaving my job, family, friends, and girlfriend behind on a different hemisphere.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#85

Post by angersock »

pessimizer wrote: post #58

Aren't you suddenly getting terrified about what the dossier created by data mining every phone call, every email, every article on every website you read, every comment you've ever left, every book you ever bought, every library book that you ever took out, the magazines that you subscribe to, every cent you've ever spent by card and where it was spent, every place you've ever lived, every place where you worked, ev…

But remember, we have to disarm, because guns are evil you see. And because we can trust big brother, you see. The government knows what's best for us--after all, it knows everything about us.

This is the sort of reason the wingnuts cry about guns and gubberment, and unfortunately, they're looking a bit less alarmist with each passing day.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#86

Post by anigbrowl »

pessimizer wrote: post #58

Aren't you suddenly getting terrified about what the dossier created by data mining every phone call, every email, every article on every website you read, every comment you've ever left, every book you ever bought, every library book that you ever took out, the magazines that you subscribe to, every cent you've ever spent by card and where it was spent, every place you've ever lived, every place where you worked, ev…

Nope. It was obvious from the get-go that the purpose of the Patriot Act was to normalize what had previously been the domain of covert investigations of individuals. I don't personally feel terrified about it because I am too boring to become a likely object of suspicion; realistically, the chance of my being swept up in a government intelligence operation is about as likely as my being blown up by terrorists. And frankly, the Patriot act has had considerably less impact on individual liberties and Democratic participation that I expected it to at the time it was passed.

On the other hand, I'm quite depressed that it's taken people so long to put it together that they're willing to buy into the idea that Obama a) invented it or b) had the freedom to single-handed dismantle it. The entire country badly needs a remedial course in civics, not least in Congress's ongoing game of hot potato.

This book predates the war on terror but seems extremely relevant: http://www.amazon.com/Power-Without-Responsibility-Congress-...

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#87

Post by sneak »

kibwen wrote: post #66
abduhl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy these type of comments. They mostly come from Americans who have never looked into the requirements to "leave" legally. It turns out the rest of the world has immigration laws that are just as strict or more strict than America's so unless you're young and you're filthy rich, in a very specialized field that country needs, or ridiculously good looking you're probably not welcome in country X.

Exactly this. If you think it's so simple to emigrate from the US, go ahead and try. I'm sure it wouldn't be too onerous for the types that frequent HN, but for the 99.9% of the population that's less affluent and less technically skilled, you're stuck here.

I did, and it was.

Also, I was speaking to HN when I suggested it.

Please keep your comments relevant and productive. A snarky "this" doesn't add a lot to the discussion, especially when your silly claim is exactly at odds with reality.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#88

Post by anigbrowl »

angersock wrote: post #85
pessimizer wrote: post #58

Aren't you suddenly getting terrified about what the dossier created by data mining every phone call, every email, every article on every website you read, every comment you've ever left, every book you ever bought, every library book that you ever took out, the magazines that you subscribe to, every cent you've ever spent by card and where it was spent, every place you've ever lived, every place where you worked, ev…

But remember, we have to disarm, because guns are evil you see. And because we can trust big brother, you see. The government knows what's best for us--after all, it knows everything about us. This is the sort of reason the wingnuts cry about guns and gubberment, and unfortunately, they're looking a bit less alarmist with each passing day.

Be realistic, neither the political right or the NRA exhibited the least bit of opposition to the Patriot Act at the time of its adoption; 2nd amendment types were too busy printing and buying bumper stickers such as the one below for their cars.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f258/heyman1104/My%20Rivie...

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#89

Post by sneak »

jlgreco wrote: post #43
sneak wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it works great. I know because I tried it.

Leaving works for individuals fortunate enough to be in a position where it is feasible. Unfortunately it is not a solution that can be applied across the board. Even assuming every concerned American had the means to leave, such a mass exodus of Americans would surely cause concern in any country they might wish to flee too.

Only the innovators need emigrate for the plan to work, fortunately.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#90

Post by sneak »

khuey wrote: post #32
sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

Can't vote with your tax dollars unless you renounce your citizenship. And that feels like abdicating responsibility to me.

False.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Forei...

My line 14 has been zero for several years. I am a US-born American citizen.

Post reply on HN