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NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

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Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is hyperbole. The number of terrorist incidents is massively low, and the few that the government claims to have stopped were such laughably unrealistic plots that one wonders the government even bothered. Meanwhile, we have a government surveillance program that literally surpasses the level of the Stasi, here in the United States, and simultaneously an administration that will not even reveal the criteria used…

Bullshit, 'the Stasi"? Go talk to somebody who lived in East Germany. And they catch people all the time trying to get bomb materials, how did you think they were doing it, luck? (In the case of the car bomb in Times Square you're right, it was dumb luck, the timer malfunctioned.) If the average person didn't freak out and start yelling retarded things like 'Stasi!' I'd say fine, maybe my fucking Facebook is worth pe…

My partner grew up in East Germany and has told me of the Stasi and their activities. I note that the GP wrote 'we have a government surveillance program that literally surpasses the level of the Stasi' - emphasis mine, and I think this is a fair statement.

Also, on a meta-point, every time I see someone start their post off with the word 'Bullshit' on HN - and I see it quite often, like it's some sort of HN meme - I always think: gee, that post would have lost nothing from the exclusion of that first word and probably would have been a little more in service of promoting civil discourse.

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#72
post #67
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really makes me suspicious is this passage: > “They quite literally can watch your ideas form as you type,” said the “career intelligence officer” who gave documents describing PRISM to the Washington Post. Think of the engineering needed at multiple endpoints to allow something like this...I can believe the NSA has some of the best cryptoanalysts, but our best front-end hackers as well (do they have their own M…

I think "as you type" means different things to an intelligence officer and a programmer. The intelligence officer probably means "real time" (no need for a judge/approval/etc). A Google Wave like interface is probably not in the backend, but if the FISA route took weeks and the new kit takes seconds I could see "literally as you type" being a description that fits.

Yes...maybe I reacted too strongly to the often misused "literally."

But even real-time interception would not (seemingly) be that valuable to analysts. Assuming that suspects aren't dumb enough to use their own personal accounts and to talk of their plans explicitly, it seems analysts would want the historical aggregate of which alias accounts talked to which other alias accounts.

Hell, Facebook can already figure out if you're connected to someone even if you've never directly interacted on the service...if the allegations are true, I wonder how much of the requested data comes with pre-baked network-calculated goodness?

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#73
post #54
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If your ISP is giving you up, what does google matter?

Most Google services can work over SSL (after years of pressure). That trumps ISP's DPI. And live traffic is nothing compared to your search history (with location and profiling) and email.

Do you think the NSA has gotten all the internet giants to bow down but somehow failed to get root certificates? SSL is not going to keep you out of this sort of surveillance.

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#74
post #2

Two days, two major reveals, wouldn't be suprised if tomorrow I wake up to find out that they've been switching on the microphones and cameras on webcams and cellphones.

The CIA has stated that it wants to do this. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/ Tech like the XBox One will make this pretty easy (as its microphone is always on and the Kinect cam is integrated).

I've always wondered how a government agency would reliably set up cameras in everyone's home 1984 style. I find it hilarious that we may just go down to Best Buy and install in our own homes.

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#75
post #11
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention all of the revelations over the past few weeks. Either the administration is trying to top Nixon or there is some kind of conspiracy playing out.

All of this deserves impeachment. Will Congress oblige? That's the real question. Normally, Republicans would be more than happy to do it - but for something like this? I'm more skeptical about that.

Many of the programs date to the Bush administration so it's probably not something that Republicans are too able to blow back on.

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#76
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, they're legally required to deny it. Plus, careful wording allows all sorts of out. Google says they don't provide a "back door", but this sort of thing could be defined as coming in the front door.

Gag orders don't require them to deny it, the require them not to confirm it.

At least as far as we know. We're in new territory here--this is a secret court with secret rulings so it's unknown what kind of orders have been issued. There may very well be one that requires denial. Or the NSA could be skipping a step and be making use of its backhaul fiber firehoses and a cache of certificates to decrypt SSL traffic. Hopefully we'll find out...

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#77
post #37
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh please. like this has a thing to do with POTUS. I worked at an ISP in 1998 when we were contacted by the FBI and required to install carnivore. This has been going on a very long time.

When a junior developer screws something up, I accept responsibility and apologize to the client. It's my fault. There is no authority without responsibility. If you don't like that, don't accept the job. [FWIW I didn't like Bush either]

Are you really conflating the challenge and compromises involved with being the leader of the free world to being a mid to senior level developer?

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#78
post #72
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "as you type" means different things to an intelligence officer and a programmer. The intelligence officer probably means "real time" (no need for a judge/approval/etc). A Google Wave like interface is probably not in the backend, but if the FISA route took weeks and the new kit takes seconds I could see "literally as you type" being a description that fits.

Yes...maybe I reacted too strongly to the often misused "literally." But even real-time interception would not (seemingly) be that valuable to analysts. Assuming that suspects aren't dumb enough to use their own personal accounts and to talk of their plans explicitly, it seems analysts would want the historical aggregate of which alias accounts talked to which other alias accounts. Hell, Facebook can already figure o…

Obviously all conjecture here, but what came to mind for me is things like having a keyword filter on a bunch of accounts (whoever you're watching). The moment they Google for something you want to see you get an alert that it happened.

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#79
post #18

Why leave Apple off the list in the title submission? (Because they deny it? Then better leave Google off the list, too - they deny it as well).

Actually, in my haste to post I only listed the ones that I thought of right away. I was quite disappointed to hear the Apple too, has succomb. Now I really have a reason to install Debian Wheezy on MBPr. ;p This is no way to live. Something must be done.

This got me thinking. Linux distros has usually been seen as a safe harbor for people. We now have proof that MS and Apple has been in bed with the governments for a long time, and but even before it wouldn't have been too wrong to think MS/Apple has some kind of back door.

Years ago, something called Ubuntu came up to spread linux to the masses. While it was hard to install and maintain a linux pc before, Ubuntu made it so that it was almost as simple as windows. I know this is a baseless conspiracy theory, but would it be too far fetched to think maybe Ubuntu was sponsored by the government to spread linux and lull the people into a false sense of security in their linux environment?

Re: NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

#80
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly which data is exposed for each provider? According to slide 2, all of it. You might be confusing this with yesterday's Verizon story, which was "only" metadata -- caller, sender, time, and duration. This one is "actual" data -- email content, chat text, audio/video of VoIP calls. (From the article, there's also a parallel NSA program (BLARNEY) that collects metadata only. I don't know why there's two of them)…

Rather, I'm trying to hold onto the idea that my mail is not directly piped, entirely, into a government tracking and storage system. No questions asked, no filters: just everything. Which is what is probably happening right now.

Let's just say the pipes are there and they have the desire to use them.
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